2Co 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
What Do You Base The Tithe On?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saturneptune, Oct 26, 2013.
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2 Corinthians 9, NASB"Purposed" here, "decided" in your translation, means "to bring forth from one's stores; to choose for one's self before another;" that is, making an affirmation (in this case, before God) that we will will do as He would expect of us. The Greek is proaireomai and has no reference whatsoever to the actual amount of the gift.
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Also, you're attempting to cherry-pick the verse. Let's look at the whole context.
2 Corinthians 9[/I]The word "bountiful" in v. 5 sets the tone for the whole passage, and in and of itself removes any concept that Paul could be approving anything less than a gift that matches the giver's excess. The Greek for "bountiful" is eulogia from which we get "eulogy" and means to praise, laud, and it specifically, in most biblical uses, refers to praise, laudation or panegyric for Christ Himself.
5 So I thought it necessary to urge the brethren that they would go on ahead to you and arrange beforehand your previously promised bountiful gift, so that the same would be ready as a bountiful gift and not affected by covetousness.
6 Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
9 as it is written, "HE SCATTERED ABROAD, HE GAVE TO THE POOR, HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ENDURES FOREVER."
Not a percentage, not a "tithe" nor certainly not a niggardly amount. The idea here is that the gift is what is left over from the gift-giver's bill-paying from his income, for whatever time period referenced -- it appears to be a week, elsewhere in Paul's writings to the Corinthian church in his letters to them. Give to the glory of God out of your abundance, and that is not a number you decide, but represents an actual number that varies from week to week.
So I would ask you, if, after paying bills from your week's income, do you give everything that's left over? Some weeks, for us, that would be 50% of our income. No, I don't give that much. I probably should, because in reality, it appears that is what Paul is saying. If you have five percent of your income after you meet your obligations, give it. If you have 80%, give it. Are you willing to give on that basis? Because that is what your passage actually says, not "what I decide" it means. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
At the end of the year I tithe any capital gains I have been blessed with during the year. -
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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And no, it is speaking of the amount. You can "explain" all you want, but that is what the text SAYS. I'll take what the text says, over your "explanation" any day.
The word Proaireomai comes from two Greek words, "pro" which means "in front of" and "aeromai" which refers to a persons preference. This literally means a persons chief preference.
It is directly in regards to the amount of the gift. Kathos refers to an amount. The command here is to give the amount which you desire to give in your heart.
The ESV reflects this, perfectly IMO.
The word being translated "bountiful" (not "bountiful" at all, really....again, that is a horrific translation. Not even the right form), is the word eulogia, which refers to a commendation or blessing. Al Paul is saying in verse 5, is that he doesn't want to force or extort anyone to give, but rather they should give whatever "blessing" they wish.
That fits in perfectly with verse 7, AND with verse 6, BTW, which is clearly indicative of giving whatever you choose.
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How about we ask John Gill, who says of the early part of the passage the NASB renders "Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart ..."?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/eulogia.html
And your parsing doesn't negate the fact it has nothing to do with the amount, and everything to do with the decision to give in the first place. The context of the 2 Corinthians passage makes that abundantly clear for anyone who wants to see it.
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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And no, Thayers does not agree with your at all. "Bountiful" is not listed as even an acceptable translation. From the site you give, BTW:
"praise, laudation, panegyric: of Christ or God
fine discourse, polished language
in a bad sense, language artfully adapted to captivate the hearer: fair speaking, fine speeches
an invocation of blessing, benediction
consecration
a (concrete) blessing, benefit"
You are confusing the NAS (New American Standards) word usage, with the meanings given by Thayers.
I own multiple copies of Thayers, and none of them give "bountiful" as an acceptable translation for eulogia...from one of them:
"1) praise, laudation, panegyric: of Christ or God
2) fine discourse, polished language
2a) in a bad sense, language artfully adapted to captivate the hearer: fair speaking, fine speeches
3) an invocation of blessing, benediction
4) consecration
5) a (concrete) blessing, benefit
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the same as G2127
Citing in TDNT: 2:754, 275
"
"The word "bountiful" in v. 5 sets the tone for the whole passage..."
Even though the Greek word for "bountiful" is not in the text AT ALL. The word that the NAS wrongly renders "bountiful" means "praise" or "blessing."
Your accusation that it "says what I want it to say" is ridiculous. I am a pastor. If their is no giving, I don't eat. If anything, I would be biased TOWARD the meaning you are forcing on the text.
I have no dog in this hunt, other than to be true to the text, which clearly teaches giving whatever you wish.
Yes, they can choose for themselves. Choose what the text actually SAYS, or choose what you are forcing on the text. It says clearly to "give as he has decided in his heart." Thats what the text SAYS. -
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Sorry, but what the text actually says, matters.:tonofbricks:
How selfish of me!
Lexical Knowledge, Scholarship, and heremeutical experience ABSOLUTELY have part in a discussion such as this. It is foolish to say otherwise.
Your arguments, by the way, are not standing at all....:tonofbricks: -
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And no, what is plain is what the text actually says, if you just read it. We give what we want.
That is just so plain.
2Co 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart -
I am and have been all day today rethinking my position and am almost ready to post a retraction.
My argument has been thus:
The tithe predated the law, was part of the law and was affirmed by Christ.
Those three pillars are beginning to look shaky as I ponder the matter more closely.
The fact that Abraham DID it, doesn't mean that anybody else did it or that anybody else should do it.
The tithe indeed was designed to support temple worship which has been abolished.
Jesus affirmed that it ought to be done but he made that affirmation while the Temple still stood and the ceremonial system was still in full force.
The only thing that I think I have argued that stands firm is this: the New Testament never requires less of God's people. Remember the "But I say unto you..." passages of Christ in the Sermon on the Mount.
But this is not a point in contention between HD and me. He agrees that ALL OF IT BELONGS TO GOD.
The only thing I would say at this point is that a NT saint who gives less to a greater work than an Old Testament saint gave to a lesser work ought to examine his own heart- for where his treasure is there will his heart be also.
Thanks for the rigorous debate!!!!
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The NT Christian who is a cheerful giver out of what the Lord has done for us will greatly out give the folks in the OT who were under the oppression of the temple authorities. They gave in the same sense we pay taxes to the Obama empire. We give out of love.
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Let me add: provided the person is ABLE to give. There are plenty of retirees, disabled, etc., who live on an extremely small income, who may not be able to give ten percent. There is a big difference between a farmer, giving ten percent of his grain, and a grandmother living in a rent controlled apartment, with barely enough to get by, trying to give the same of her income.
Such a person might struggle to give 5 percent. But if it is out of love for the Lord, and is sacrificial, it is definitely acceptable and pleasing to the Lord. -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Id do it on performance.
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