Here is our friend Roger Olson......at it again...:laugh::laugh::wavey:
In a recent post, Roger stirred up a hornet’s nest by suggesting that “Arminians should not pray to God to save their friends and loved ones.”
http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/07/04/should-you-pray-for-god-to-save-your-loved-ones/
What does consistent error look like?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jul 6, 2012.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Here's the post of Roger Olson's linked in the above article.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogere...ut-prayer-for-unsaved-loved-ones-and-friends/
Context is everything. Really nothing too controversial here.
"The issue is not the words prayed so much as the meaning intended." -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
He really does grasp the issue as is in evidence here,,,,God does not FORCE... He makes His people willing.
he has a god of the potential...not actual! -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Reading the quote in its context clears up any concern. You'll notice in the linked piece, Olson's piece, and in the comments this is explained.
Note this from the link: Professor Olson is not being picky, going around telling fellow Arminians not to pray for folks; he just wants their prayer to be consistent with their theology.
If your post here is missing this I'd guess you didn't read the piece. Listen, I'm no fan of Olson, but he deserves an honest read. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
From the article by Olson:
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It seems to me that “God, please save my friend” without qualifications normally means “God, break my friend’s will and force him to repent.”
I will say “Well, that’s not what I think those words mean, but okay, if that’s what you mean, God knows what you mean and so go ahead and pray that way.”
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So really, Icon, how is that Olson saying, “Arminians should not pray to God to save their friends and loved ones” ??!! -
Calvinism.
Sorry, couldnt resist.
There is *some* good stuff in Calvinism. -
Since the OP and title seem to be purposefully misleading I thought it best to post Roger's actual words for the discerning readers who may frequent this forum:
"It seems to me that “God, please save my friend” without qualifications normally means “God, break my friend’s will and force him to repent.” Perhaps not everyone who prays that prayer means that, but that’s what the words alone imply. That’s not consistent with Arminian belief. In my opinion, only a Calvinist (or maybe also a Lutheran) can pray that way consistently.
However, if the context is a lesson on prayer and the issue of praying for salvation of friends and loved ones comes up I will share my opinion.
And my opinion in this case is–it depends on what you mean because God always knows what you mean and you’re praying to God. And if you mean to ask God to violate someone’s free will and force them to be saved, then I don’t think that’s proper. If you mean to ask God to bring circumstances into a person’s life that will probably convince them of their need of salvation, then it’s proper. But why not pray with words that communicate what you mean?" -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What good stuff do you see in calvinism???? -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
No....it was right on the money...just read the portions you yourself quote, read all of Olsons post.....it is outright error.The only misleading thing was when he twists what calvinists believe.....but you probably being in agreement with it did not notice:tongue3: -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
read his article on what he likes about calvinists....scroll down to his responses to the comments.....he says he explains that he tells people to prayer for God to bring circumstances into their life ,so THEY might see their need of Him. He does not believe God can directly do anything....he is saying God has done all that he can....in one of the quotes he says...only a calvinist can pray and ask God to save someone...
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ROF-:laugh: -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The OP is an an example of the inevitable result of what one gets when one reads something (not in full, nor in overall context) by someone they disagree with and is in lieu of attempting to understand its author's intent as charitably as possible, is merely engaged in a witch-hunt.
If one wanted a reasoned response to Roger's article from an educated and charitable Calvinist perspective, there would be no better place to look than to consult Olson's friend Horton himself:
Having said that, I do think that Roger has consistency on his side when it comes to his own position. “‘Lord, save my friend’ (without qualification) normally reflects monergism, not synergism.” (Since Paul said that “my heart’s prayer to God for [fellow Jews] is that they may be saved” [Rom 10:1], I’m delighted now to find that this is yet another proof-text for monergism!)
But who would want reasoned exchange when we can BURN A WITCH!! :mad: -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If I want to see error...or what it looks like...I can just go to your profile and look at ALL POSTS by Benjamin:laugh:
recently I noticed you were boasting about being the resident "DOG WHISPERER" here on BB:laugh: stick to what you know:thumbs:
If a dog is not listening to your commands....you probably start going into a philosophical monologue until the dog goes into a coma:laugh: -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
go to humbles link....then click on olsons article on what I like about calvinists.....then scroll down to him responding to comments. Read his own words.... -
You guys hold to the doctrine of eternal security as I do.
We are in agreement concerning Christs atoning sacrifice, and the literal bodily resurrection of Christ.
You all are fairly good regarding justifcation through faith alone.
Your view of the church is not problamatic.
etc etc
you get the idea
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