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Featured What innate Divine attribute did Christ set aside at the incarnation?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by atpollard, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated that what he said and did was under the Father, as he did nothing of Himself, correct?
    I would see Jesus being Subordinate to his Father while here upon the Earth, but he did also say that He would receive back the fullness of his glory that he had with the father when He rose again and ascended back to God.
     
  2. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    If you’re comparing Classical Theism with the Biblical Jesus you have to toss omnipotence, omniscience, immutability, ineffability, impassibility, simplicity, omnipresence, etc.
     
  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I have presented an occasion where Jesus demonstrated omnipresence.
    Some of the others I am not sufficiently familiar with to comment, but I have some personal questions about GOD and impassibility from a Biblical basis (setting Jesus aside for a moment).
     
  4. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    1. That "occasion" is a major stretch to get what you want. Even if someone believes your interpretive stretch of Jesus saw something a distance away = Jesus was in two places, one has to make the second interpretive stretch of Jesus was in two places = Jesus was in all places. Nothing in the text says either of these.

    2. You don't seem to understand that omnipresence in Classical Theism is not just existing everywhere but also at every time.
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    The first point I will grant you. Part of my intention was to just take an extreme position and attempt to make a case rather than blindly accept the rhetoric of common wisdom. So I entered the discussion with a high probability of failure.

    On the second point, WHEN did the Second Person of the Trinity not exist that Jesus is disqualified from being omnipresent?
     
  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Just to push back a little (for the sake of discussion). The text does present Jesus as saying that he saw something at a location where he was not corporeally (in the flesh, so to speak) present. At a minimum, in whatever sense Jesus was just like us in all ways, a "clairvoyant" Jesus is not JUST like us in ALL ways. ;)

    [Know what I mean, Verne?]
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think we may also want to consider if it was what would consider a "divine attribute" that Christ set aside.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    was all of god the Son here as Jesus, or was some of Him still in heaven?
    think in the Incarnation the Full God the Son took on limited human flesh and form, so accepted the limitations of being just in one place for example!
    when he ascended and was re glorified by his Father, he once again was exercising the all everything again!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did Jesus do things out of His own Deity, or by the Holy Spirit operating in and thru him while in the flesh?
     
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Because Jesus could have sinned just as Adam did but He did not do what Adam did in spite of the temptations, even those of Satan in the wilderness.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Deity cannot sin....
     
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Technically, I think that the whole point is an artificial construct to help a person understand the Trinity as much as possible. I had a JW list about every passage in the NT on the subject but became stymied at the clear explanation of Scripture that Jesus laid aside His deity. The JWs are out to lunch on that point because it has no Scriptural basis whatsoever. The Watchtower Society is setting their people up for failure very quickly if they continue to try to sell that point.

    .Philippians 2:7 (KJV) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    No, but man can. Jesus overcame the temptations that beset human flesh, where Adam failed.
     
    #32 church mouse guy, Feb 13, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There was nothing within jesus that would be entice/attracted towards sinning, as every tiem he would get hit by that temptation, never could have conceived it forward, would be auto rejected!
     
  14. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    See, there is a problem there because the Son of Man had to eat, sleep, and grow from an infant to an adult.

    Hebrews 4:15 (KJV) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he could not have the possibility to sin, and yet still do all of that!
     
  16. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Then was Jesus truly man? You have a lot of problems with your point and I imagine that there is a name for that line of thinking but I don't share your viewpoint with you because Hebrews says that Jesus was tempted as we are. I still think that the core problem for human understanding is the nature of the Trinity and the attributes of God, which include an infinite mind. Jesus is called the last Adam, so I think that He was like Adam when He became incarnate, which I gather that you do not?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, for adam was a created being, while Jesus was also still fully God!
     
  18. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I disagree with you. Matthew 8:20 (KJV) And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head.

    Jesus called Himself over and over the Son of man.

    Jesus is called the last Adam:

    1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Son of man , the divine person seen by Daniel, far greater than just another adam!
     
  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    That is not the point, is it?
     
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