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What is a "Traditionalist" Baptist...

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Particular, Oct 22, 2019.

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  1. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    ...and why do they dislike the Particular Baptist position?
    I'm leaving this here for Traditionalist Baptists to share how their beliefs contrast with a Particular Baptist. The Particular Baptist holds to the 5 points of Calvinism as expressed in response to the Remonstrants.
    How are the two Baptist camps different and similar?
     
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I know you asked for "Traditionalists" to share how their beliefs differ with Particular Baptists (a.k.a. Calvinists), but I want to go on record as stating that "Traditionalist" is a contrived term that serves no other purpose than to provide cover or legitimacy to certain Baptists that disagree with Calvinism. Perhaps they use the term to establish the legitimacy of their beliefs and that they are of old? If that is the case, it is a term that Calvinists and non-Calvinists can use. The term does nothing to indicate what these certain Baptists believe. I know this is going to come off as a poke in the eye of those who consider themselves "Traditionalists" but I do not mean it to be like that. Like you, I want to know what these Traditionalists believe. Can they bullet point their beliefs to make it easy for everyone to understand their doctrinal distinctives?
     
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  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I'm not certain but I think the term "Traditionalist" is used within the SBC to indicate that person is not a Calvinist.

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  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Actually, if true that is pretty funny. I have friends (Calvinists and non-Calvinists) in SBC churches and I have never heard of the term outside of the Baptist Board. I guess I need to get out more.
     
  5. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Here is an image found at soteriology101. Apparently Traditionalist and Provisionlist are synonymous terms.
    Our Beliefs[​IMG]
     
  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Leighton Flower's website. The devil (excuse the pun) is in the details. A Calvinist can agree with each one of the above points, albeit with qualification.
     
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  7. OldArmy

    OldArmy Member

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    So "reformed" Baptist? If so it would just seems like Calvinism under another name to me...Dr.James White if I'm not mistaken belongs to a reformed Baptist church. What's different between Particular and 5 point Calvinist? Serious question because I have never heard of Particular...well anything as far as denomination.
     
  8. OldArmy

    OldArmy Member

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    Right, same terms different dictionary.
     
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it is a made up term to give the reader a leaning that "Oh, that must be the correct position if it is traditional." It is a deceptive tactic.
     
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Doubtful since the SBC is historically Calvinist.
     
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Confessionalism and Covenant Theology. Not every Calvinistic Baptist is the same. James White subscribes to the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a doctrinal statement. He is also a Covenant Theologian as opposed to a Dispensationalist. Those Baptists that refer to themselves as "Reformed" believe similarly. But there are many Calvinistic Baptists who are Dispensational. There is your difference.

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  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Then some, like Albert Mohler and myself, believe you have to have pieces of Covenant Theology and also Dispensationalism to be biblically sound :)
     
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  13. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    This site should help.
    Particular Baptist Covenant Theology
     
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  14. OldArmy

    OldArmy Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
     
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  15. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Most of SBC is not Calvinist. I have not personally met any Baptists which have identified as Calvinist - although I have met Presbyterians and Episcopalians. So, no word is usually used.

    Armenian, however, is a misnomer. Arminianism is subset of Calvinism. The Council of Dort was a Calvinist spat - only Calvinists were invited. This is why the label "traditionalist" was likely created. As for the history, I believe one would be correct that the very first Baptist churches in America were Calvinist.

    "Traditionalism" grew exponentially as the number of Baptist churches grew. By the late 19th Century, "Traditionalists" far outnumbered Calvinists.
     
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Dockery: Calvinism has roots in SBC history
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Based on what? Traditionalists didn't even really occur until the 60's....the 1960's
     
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  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    From the founding of the SBC there have always been particular baptists (calvies) and general baptists (everyone else). When someone says that the SBC has been "historically Calvinist" they do not know what they are talking about.
     
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  20. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Definitely wrong.

    TULIP is not listed in 1925 BFAM.
     
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