If you thought you were on your way to heaven because you belonged to the church, or because your parents were Christians, or because you were a good person, then yes, you need to change your mind about yourself.
That is what Jesus told those persons in Luke 13. They thought that the persons killed by Pilate, and the persons killed when a tower fell on them was evidence that those persons were terrible sinners that God punished.
Jesus asked them if they "supposed" these persons were greater sinners than all others in Galilee?
He was saying, Hey, do you think they were worse THAN YOU?
He then told them they need to repent of this false belief that they were righteous simply because nothing bad had happened to them. That was not evidence they were righteous. They needed to see they they also were sinners and in danger of perishing.
So yes, it is to turn from self-righteousness and accept that you are a sinner in need of Jesus as your Saviour. You are not going to come to Jesus until you realize you are lost.
What is Repentance?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jordan Kurecki, May 9, 2014.
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Thank You Winman.
I am guilty of perverting the Gospel lately.
I certainly have repented of what Repentance for Salvation is. -
Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
If you mean business, so does God.
1 Jhn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
You are going to do well. :thumbsup: -
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When men repent, primarily we are turning from our rebellious ways (sin) toward God's ways. So we have a change in our thinking that MUST affect a change in behavior. Otherwise it isn't genuine repentance.
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We will have to agree to disagree. To repent regarding salvation means to turn from self-righteousness, and realize that we need to believe on Jesus to be saved.
You will not see anywhere in scripture where someone is told they must repent of sin to be saved.
Jesus is the great physician. We do not get better to get saved, we get saved to be better.
When you believe on Jesus, you will receive the Holy Spirit. You will now have a new heart and mind and this is what will turn you from sin.
Folks that say you have to repent of sin have it backwards. -
Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
from Jesus-is-savior.com -
Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
an Evangelist friend of mine says:Lordship Salvation advocates say the drowning person must be willing to turn from the water and pull himself out while tears of regret roll down his face.
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Bump it up.
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
a sinner must be regenerated before they can turn away from sin, Repentance is change of mind about self and looking to Jesus. a person will never look to Jesus unless they change their mind (Repent) about self.
Could you show from scripture where Repentance is used in the way of meaning to turn from sin AND that this type of repentance is necessary for salvation BOTH in the SAME passage of scripture, You might be able to convince me if you can do this.
Because whenever you see the word repent used you have to look at the context of how it is being used to figure out what the the person must repent about, I am yet to see from scripture alone where the word repent is used as a requirement for salvation and be clearly shown that it is all sin that must be repented of.
One thing I have noticed is that Winman is appealing to scripture with Exegesis.
You are attempting to argue from reason and logic. -
The answer to both questions is they can't. Regeneration precedes both faith and repentance. Both are gifts, and both are necessary.
Logically, in the order of salvation, regeneration comes first followed by faith and repentance. However in time, all three are instantaneous, thus faith and repentance are necessary for salvation. But that is another discussion.
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. - Mat 3:7-10 NASB
I know Winman tried to explain these verses away by saying what must be repented of is the attitude of ethnic superiority mentioned in verse 9, but that really makes mince meat of what the prophet is saying. That is partly true of course, they did need to repent of their racism, however that is something that is combined with the general call to repent. Look at the language, "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father.'" John is anticipating their excuses of why they think they don't need to repent, not fully expounding on what they must repent of.
They hear John's call to repentance, which is clearly salvific, John says they must "flee from the wrath to come," and therefore (because they are to flee the wrath to come) they must bear fruit keeping with or consistent with repentance. In other words this repentance is not only in the mind, it must be worked out in the persons life and this is part of fleeing the wrath of God. The Pharisees and Sadducees will argue that as Jews they do not need to repent, repentance is for Gentiles to them. However John heads that off before they even speak, essentially telling them "Don't say you, as Jews, are good to go and don't need to repent! Your works say otherwise!" And then John uses the picture of the axe chopping down trees. You can't miss the parallel between verse 8 "bear fruit keeping with repentance" and verse 10 "every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down..."
and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." - Mar 1:15 NASB
Jesus has begun his public ministry, after the arrest of John, and is now calling people to repentance. This repentance is clearly tied to but separate from belief itself in the gospel. And don't miss the context, Mark sets this up immediately follows John's preaching of repentance and right before Jesus calls his disciples. The repentance preached by Jesus is assumed to be the same as John's, the context gives no indication that it is different. The repentance John preached dealt with the confession of and forgiveness of sin (Mar 1:5 and 1:4 respectively).
When Jesus calls the disciples he says to them "Follow me" and they leave everything they have a follow Christ. This following Jesus is clearly seen as the correct response to the call of repent and believe. The call has not changed, we are still to follow Jesus and we abandon all (sometimes literally sacrificing everything) in repentance and faith. Salvation (justification and sanctification, what the gospels simply call following Jesus) is clearly seen as repentance and belief/faith in the gospel.
"You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you. "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity." - Act 8:21-23 NASB
This text is fascinating in so many ways. The context is this; A man named Simon who was a magician (sorcerer, not party entertainer) and had captivated the people of Samaria and these people where hailing him as an almost messianic figure. Then Philip comes through preaching the gospel, people are converted and stop following this guy, then Simon himself believes and is even baptized. Long story short, he sees the apostles perform miracles and tries to buy the Holy Spirit from them! Peter is indignant and says the above to him. First he tells him to "repent of this wickedness" in other words "repent of your sin!" Not only that but Peter tells him to seek forgiveness because he perceives that Simon is not genuinely saved! "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity." Peter sees the person, who remember has made a profession and been baptized, as being an unregenerate, sin-bound, lost person in need of forgiveness. This passage clearly shows that one can believe, be baptized and even go to church (follow the apostles here, 8:13) but it is still all in vain if there is no repentance. This man never repented to begin with, and there is no evidence he repented when rebuked by Peter. Repentance is critically important to salvation.
"So, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision, but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance. - Act 26:19-20 NASB
Paul is before King Agrippa giving his testimony. He recounts the vision of Christ he had and tells Agrippa what he did in response. He went to the Gentiles and preached "that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance." Notice that the Gentiles are to "repent and turn to God." The repentance here is a turning from something, paired with a turning to God. Two distinct, yet related actions. What is this they are to repent of? The text doesn't say specifically so the general repent of rebellion against God (sin) is applicable, though most likely he has in mind repentance of idolatry, which is the cardinal sin of the Gentiles.
Whatever the case, this repentance is clearly for salvation as the language in verse 20, "repent and turn to God," mirrors the reported words of Jesus in verse 18 where the Lord says that Paul must preach so that the people "turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God." Why must people turn, i.e., repent? "That they may receive forgiveness of sins." This repentance is also evidenced in "deeds appropriate to repentance" again showing that biblical repentance is not only in the mind, but is worked out in the life.
Also reason and logic are not our enemies. Our faith does not call us to check our brains at the door. Everything is to be brought into obedience to the Word of God, but if God is a logical, intelligent being as scripture says, then logic and reason must be consistent with not contrary to the Bible. -
True repentance, in regards to salvation, is through a Godly sorrow, which leads us to Christ, seeking His mercy...
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Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jhn 1:12-13 says to those persons who received Jesus and believed on his name, to these persons God gave the power to be born again and become the sons of God. That absolutely shows faith preceding regeneration.
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
This verse says you must believe to have life, which is regeneration.
So, here are two verses clearly showing faith preceding regeneration, and I could probably show half a dozen more. You cannot show any verse saying regeneration precedes faith, I challenge you here and now to show it.
And why did you sin? Answer that one honestly.
That John preached Jesus and not to turn from sin is shown by Paul in Acts.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus
Now, what did John the Baptist say about Jesus?
Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John clearly taught Jesus was the lamb that takes away the sin of the world. The Jews understood this, they knew that men placed their hands on a lamb's head and confessed their sins, and the lamb was killed in their place, and their sins were forgiven.
So, John taught that Jesus would die for our sins. But he did not tell them they had to turn from sin to be saved.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
What is the foundation of the doctrine of Christ? That we should repent of dead works, that is trying to save ourselves, and place our faith in God to save us.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins
These verses do not teach we must turn from sin, it says John preached the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins. And what must to do to have forgiveness of your sins? You must BELIEVE on Jesus. And in verse 5 it says they confessed their sins, not that they turned from sin whatever that means. Even you now say it does not mean to stop sinning.
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And Peter's words actually refute your view, because Peter called the Holy Spirit the "gift of God". It is not something you earn by your performance.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
If we have to do good deeds to be saved, then our reward is not of grace, but of debt. But the person who does NOT work, but believes on Jesus who justifies "the ungodly", his faith is counted for righteousness. We don't have to stop sinning and be godly to be saved, Jesus forgives the ungodly.
I believe you have it backwards, you want a man to get well before he gets saved, where scripture says we get saved to get well. It is when we receive the Spirit that we will naturally turn away from sin.
1 Jhn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
It is when we believe that we receive the Spirit, and when we receive the Spirit we will naturally turn away from sin. -
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
I am saved by grace through faith.
Without faith I do not know what grace is without faith I have no reason for Godly sorrow that leads to repentance without out faith that comes from the word of Jesus and the word about Him I have no life in me His words are Spirit and life.
If I don't eat the faith His word and drink in His blood the life Jesus lived I have no life in me.
John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Regeneration before faith before you eat and drink the medicine for Life is ridiculous
"The life of a sinner is in Christ. If you take the Father apart from the Son, though he loves his elect, and decrees that they shall live, yet life is only in his Son. If you take God the Spirit apart from Jesus Christ, though it is the Spirit that gives us spiritual life, yet it is life in Christ, life in the Son. We dare not, and cannot apply in the first place, either to God the Father, or to God the Holy Ghost for spiritual life. The first thing we are led to do when God brings us out of Egypt is to eat the Passover—the very first thing. The first means whereby we get life is by feeding upon the flesh and blood of the Son of God; living in him, trusting on him, believing in his grace and power. Our second thought was—there is life in Christ."
C.H.Spurgeon -
Regardless, of course I haven’t. No one has. We all will struggle with sin until we are glorified.
But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity. " - 2Ti 2:19 ESV
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Repentance is almost always seen as affecting a change in the person’s life and often paired with specific sins not just unbelief that must be repented of.
"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: Repent and turn away from your idols, and turn away your faces from all your abominations. - Eze 14:6 ESV
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, - Act 3:19 ESV
Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. - Act 8:22 ESV
but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. - Act 26:20 ESV
I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. - Rev 2:21 ESV
Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works, - Rev 2:22 ESV
nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. - Rev 9:21 ESV
and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds. - Rev 16:11 ESV
You apparently didn’t read anything I said! Try again.
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I detest and abhor the Doctrines of Calvinism.
I find it absolutely disgusting that a God would hold people responsible for sins and rejecting Christ when he is the one who is responsible for not "Regenerating them" or "Electing" them.
I also find it hard to believe Election when the Bible says God so loved the world...
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