Featured What Is Soul Sleep?

The disciples saw the vision of Jesus standing there talking with them. It does not say if any or all of them were conscious as to what was going on in the present. Jesus was transfigured, but that's yet future. They were seeing what was going to happen in the Kingdom. If we want to add a scientific slant to it,it's like Jesus walked into a portal to the future and they could see into it, then came back.

 

To all..... "absent from the body, present with the Lord. " Have any of you worked a computer with 2 monitors? You move the cursor across the first one and immediately it appears in the second one. If the monitors are separated, it appears that the cursor jumped across the air, but from the computer's point of view it's continuous. Likewise, someone who dies has their next conscious moment like that cursor in the future word and are already resurrected. So to them they are immediately there. From our view, there's a gap of time between them. Sort of like a time machine. Because when the dead know nothing, then time ceases to have a meaning. Time only makes sense when one is both conscious and alive.

 

The part of them that is not physical is waiting for the GWT and lake of Fire....

 

So then they are alive and conscious (i.e. spiritually), right?

 

Pure conjecture with no Scriptural basis

 

They were the vision of the future, for these folk.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

1 Cor 15 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Moses and Elijah
Verses 17,18 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. --- The resurrection of Christ is of most importance. Without the resurrection of the man Jesus, there is no life for the dead person, not body, but person.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. --- BTW, I moved a comma. Moses and Elijah will also be there in the regeneration.

Matt 20:21-23 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

That cup and baptism is death and resurrection into the kingdom of God.

! Thes 4:13,14 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Even so, says the very same thing as 1 Cor 15:23 every man in his own order, By being raised from the dead and or instant change as further stated in 1 Cor 15 in order to inherit, enter, the kingdom of God. God will bring those asleep in Jesus into the kingdom of God along with those still alive by resurrection and or instant change, incorruptible.

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The earthly house of tabernacle of person, the body will have to be changed into tour house which is from heaven or be raised from the dead in your house which is from heaven in order for you to be ever with the Lord.

1 Thes 4:16,17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ---- And so καὶ οὕτως very, very important.

It also does not contradict 2 Cor 5. To ever be with the Lord one must have put on his house from heaved and no longer be in the earthly house of tabernacle and that does not take place until the adoption, the redemption of the body.

It was a vision post resurrection of Jesus and post resurrection of Moses and Elijah at the coming of the Lord.

 

Here is a thought.

1 Tim 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Let's say Saul had a heart attack one mile outside of Jerusalem and died. Was he a sheep or not. Course I believe he was a sheep and that is the reason he did not have a heart attack and die. But my question is was Saul seeking belief or did God, for the purpose of God, not the purpose of Saul, but for God, call him out of unbelief unto belief.

Consider: Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. Ezek 36:22,23

How did Ananias feel about going and laying hands on Saul?

Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

Whose free will brought Saul from unbelief unto belief? Saul's or God's

Are we saving ourselves or are we being saved?

 

Yes, the non material aspect of them are alive and awake!

 

Then what were they seeing? If not the future what was the point? Earlier Jesus said that some here would not taste death until they saw the Kingdom. I'm just throwing different thoughts around, but my point is I want people to see this vision for what it represents rather than using it (and dummying it down) to become merely a debating point as to whether there is "soul sleep" and Jesus just feeling like having a conversation with souls in heaven. And my earlier point (which was not addressed) on John 3:13 is certainly not conjecture without scriptural basis. That statement from the Lord Himself is clear and authoritative enough.

 

OK, then after that they get thrown into the lake of fire and suffer eternally, right?

 

Not as in roasting in an oven, but as in eternally separated from God, and stuck in their own "hell"

 

So then they are alive and awake and hence they exist. Only the location has changed. One seems to have been temporary, the other permanent. c.f. John 3:16 (Perish), Romans 6:23 (death).

Also interesting to note if there is such an eternally ongoing punishment instead of death, then we are all going there because it's impossible for Jesus to have paid the price for sin. In addition, his mission to give us all life is pointless if one lives forever, even in a tormented state. c.f. Genesis 3:4.

 

Jesus said "God is NOT the God of the dead but of the living" when speaking to Moses about the dead - and this is Christ's argument in Matt 22 for the future resurrection! Christ is arguing with the Sadducees that the statement made to Moses COULD NOT be true - unless there was a future resurrection of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob since they are all dead at the time and "God is NOT the God of the dead".

 

True - in all cases the body decays to dust - and in all cases the person goes "dormant" and "sleeps". There are TWO resurrections in Rev 20 - one of the "Holy and blessed" over these the 2nd death has no power.

And then "the REST of the dead" come to life AFTER the 1000 years. This is the wicked -- over whom the 2nd death DOES have power.

 

Cast into the lake of fire -- fiery hell where they are subjected to the torment of fire and brimstone "in the presence of the LAMB and of his holy angels" -- Rev 14:10 -- and then "Destroyed BOTH body AND soul" in that fiery hell of the lake of fire -- Matthew 10:28. Ezek 18:4 "The SOUL that sins IT shall die"

 

Not according to Christ -- "Lazarus sleeps I go that I may awake HIM" John 10

 

1. Elijah never died -- see 2 Kings 2 - he was translated directly to heaven - bodily translated to heaven while alive. Just as was Enoch in Genesis 5.

2. Moses died - but was resurrected as Jude points out in his reference to the book "the Assumption of Moses"

 

Lazarus does not make any statement in John 10 about being in heaven with God - while dead. While being the "dead in Christ" or those that "have fallen asleep in Jesus".

In John 20 Jesus upon his resurrection says "Do not touch Me for I have not yet ascended to My Father"

 

Was Sleeping Beauty in soul sleep or just a good snooze? Us Dwarves wish to know.
Truthfully, in my opinion, this may be the most retarded discussion topic I have read on the BB.
I'm done trolling. Carry on.

 

You are misusing the word sleep and that was never understood by anyone in the early church.