What is the capitol of Israel?

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

He's already re-established TRUE Israel. And the United States will get her day of reckoning for her downward spiral of wickedness and turning away from supporting Israel.

You are, or course, entitled to your opinion - but that opinion should not determine US foreign policy.

No president has recognised Jerusalem as capital - why the special condemnation for this one?

 

[Zaac]

Where does the Bible say that God would re-establish Israel in 1948?

I didn't say that the Bible said Israel would be re-established in 1948.

Scripture says “‘Who has ever seen or heard of anything as strange as this? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem’s birth pains begin, the baby will be born; the nation will come forth. Would I ever bring this nation to the point of birth and then not deliver it?’ asks the Lord. ‘No! I would never keep this nation from being born,’ says your God.” Isaiah 66:8-9 (

Just because folks don't agree with your interpretation of prophecy does not mean they are ignoring the word of God.

I've told you what the word says.

 

[Zaac]

You are, or course, entitled to your opinion - but that opinion should not determine US foreign policy.

I'm well aware that US foreign policy is being dictated by forces of darkness and encouraged by those who say they are aligned with Christ, but aren't.

No president has recognised Jerusalem as capital - why the special condemnation for this one?

There was no special condemnation. The condemned condemn themselves. I simply said that the administration has taken a stance against Israel and ignoring Jerusalem as the capital simply places an exclamation point after what is quite evident.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I didn't say that the Bible said Israel would be re-established in 1948.

Scripture says “‘Who has ever seen or heard of anything as strange as this? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem’s birth pains begin, the baby will be born; the nation will come forth. Would I ever bring this nation to the point of birth and then not deliver it?’ asks the Lord. ‘No! I would never keep this nation from being born,’ says your God.” Isaiah 66:8-9 (

Modern Israel was not born in a single day. The first calls for a modern Israel came in 1896. Jews gathered there for the next 50 years. It was almost a year from the time there was a mention of Israel as a nation toward the end of the British Mandate until Ben-Gurion declared that Israel was an independent nation and another year before her sovereignty was recognised.

Look at verse 7 - '"Before she was in labor, she gave birth; Before her pain came, She delivered a male child.' The Jews suffered the pain of the Holocaust before she could be born as a nation.

Using your passage the birth pangs were in 1896 and delivery was not for 52 more years.

In addition we have no idea if this is the Israel prophecied - this nation could fall by the wayside and God establish His Israel in the year 2295 (or whenever).

 

[Zaac]

Modern Israel was not born in a single day. The first calls for a modern Israel came in 1896. Jews gathered there for the next 50 years. It was almost a year from the time there was a mention of Israel as a nation toward the end of the British Mandate until Ben-Gurion declared that Israel was an independent nation and another year before her sovereignty was recognised.

Using your passage the birth pangs were in 1896 and delivery was not for 52 more years.

In addition we have no idea if this is the Israel prophecied - this nation could fall by the wayside and God establish His Israel in the year 2295 (or whenever).

That's called denial. The people of Israel gathered together and called themselves a nation on that day and the United States recognized them as a nation on that same day.

And once again, Israel is at the center of Biblical Prophecy just as it was before.

The clock started ticking down in 1948. Almost time to go.:applause:

 

[preachinjesus]

Israel is Israel. Trying to confuse the issue does not change the fact that this country is taking a very wrong stance against the Israel that Jesus Christ will set His feet down upon when He returns after the Tribulation period.

No it isn't and we should be mindful of the actual biblical story rather than the ambiguous one of fundamentalist pro-Israel propaganda.

Israel is the biblical term for unique Abrahamic people of God who are made distinct in the 12 tribes of the sons/descendents (it gets a bit messy) of Jacob. Two of the 12 tribes are no longer in existence and haven't been since the end of the OT when their apostasy removed them from covenantal grace and spiritual solidarity with their fellow Israelites. (Cf. Joshua 19:40-48; Judges 1:34ff; 1 Kings 12:20; Jeremiah 8:16.)

When one removes the dispensational premill lens from their interpretive goggles there is also the realization that no text in the NT speaks of a reformulated National Israel which is synomyous with OT Israel. Instead the overwhelming emphasis of the NT writers is on the tranference of spiritual promise from Israel to the world and when Israel is spoken of it is used to illustrate faithful believers in the Old and New Testaments.

Besides, even in the OT there are tests for faithfulness of Israelites. One was not simply born into salvation by being born an Israelite.

I didn't say that the Bible said Israel would be re-established in 1948.

Scripture says “‘Who has ever seen or heard of anything as strange as this? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem’s birth pains begin, the baby will be born; the nation will come forth. Would I ever bring this nation to the point of birth and then not deliver it?’ asks the Lord. ‘No! I would never keep this nation from being born,’ says your God.” Isaiah 66:8-9 (

I've told you what the word says.

How does this not refer to the Nehemiah rebuilding following the Persian captivity? When we read Isaiah completely we see that the tone of Isaiah 40-66 shifts to the anticipation of the reconstitution of Israel following the Babylonian captivity. It isn't a prophetic book speaking of something 3000+ years later. The plain text reading of the entire passage indicates that the fulfilment is soon...and it was soon.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

That's called denial. The people of Israel gathered together and called themselves a nation on that day and the United States recognized them as a nation on that same day.

And once again, Israel is at the center of Biblical Prophecy just as it was before.

The clock started ticking down in 1948. Almost time to go.:applause:

Since when did US recognition make a nation a nation? Nationhood was a long and involved process - it did not happen in a day.

You might look at verse seven in your passage - '"Before she was in labor, she gave birth; Before her pain came, She delivered a male child.' The Jews suffered the pain of the Holocaust before she could be born as a nation. It was not by any means an painless birth.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

When one removes the dispensational premill lens from their interpretive goggles there is also the realization that no text in the NT speaks of a reformulated National Israel which is synomyous with OT Israel.

I wear that lens and I still can't see the connection.

 

[preachinjesus]

That's called denial. The people of Israel gathered together and called themselves a nation on that day and the United States recognized them as a nation on that same day.

And once again, Israel is at the center of Biblical Prophecy just as it was before.

The clock started ticking down in 1948. Almost time to go.:applause:

No offense man, but this is dispensationalist bunk. Go back and read your history and your biblical history. Israel as a politcal nation ceased to exist before Christ's time. Their "re-establishment" took decades and finally happened after a horrible tragedy.

We're 50+ years after their "re-establishment" and there hasn't been a second coming yet. And, other than some overblown Hal Lindsay-esque predictions, things don't seem to be heading in that direction.

Israel isn't at the center of biblical prophecy. This is no more easily evidenced than a simple survey of book of prophecy...Revelation. Where is Israel in Revelation? Honestly, only in historical descriptives. Not predictive prophecy.

 

[Zaac]

No it isn't and we should be mindful of the actual biblical story rather than the ambiguous one of fundamentalist pro-Israel propaganda.

Israel is the biblical term for unique Abrahamic people of God who are made distinct in the 12 tribes of the sons/descendents (it gets a bit messy) of Jacob. Two of the 12 tribes are no longer in existence and haven't been since the end of the OT when their apostasy removed them from covenantal grace and spiritual solidarity with their fellow Israelites. (Cf. Joshua 19:40-48; Judges 1:34ff; 1 Kings 12:20; Jeremiah 8:16.)

When one removes the dispensational premill lens from their interpretive goggles there is also the realization that no text in the NT speaks of a reformulated National Israel which is synomyous with OT Israel. Instead the overwhelming emphasis of the NT writers is on the tranference of spiritual promise from Israel to the world and when Israel is spoken of it is used to illustrate faithful believers in the Old and New Testaments.

Besides, even in the OT there are tests for faithfulness of Israelites. One was not simply born into salvation by being born an Israelite.

And everything you said disregards what Scripture says about them being brought back into their own land and that Scripture points to a NATION being born in one day.

Is there a Biblical history of a nation of Israel being re-established in one day?

How does this not refer to the Nehemiah rebuilding following the Persian captivity? When we read Isaiah completely we see that the tone of Isaiah 40-66 shifts to the anticipation of the reconstitution of Israel following the Babylonian captivity. It isn't a prophetic book speaking of something 3000+ years later. The plain text reading of the entire passage indicates that the fulfilment is soon...and it was soon.

Because Scripture is read as a whole, and as a whole Scripture points to the re-establishment of Israel.

 

[OldRegular]

Has any US administration recognised Jerusalem as capital?

Don't believe so!

Reading the Bible has nothing to do with the capital of the modern state of Israel.

I agree fully!

Jerusalem was the capital of ancient Israel and will be capital during Christ's reign on earth. Neither have anything to do with the UN established nation.

Jerusalem was the capital of ancient Israel, that is correct. However, Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ is reigning on earth and elsewhere now. Jerusalem has nothing to do with that reign now and forever.

Hebrews 1:3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 1:13. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 8:1. Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Hebrews 10:12. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 12:2. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 3:22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[Zaac]

Since when did US recognition make a nation a nation?

You're grasping at straws now because you don't want the formation of the nation in one day to actually be the formation of the nation in one day. Are y'all afraid of something?

Nationhood was a long and involved process - it did not happen in a day.

Scripture says it does and it did on May 14, 1948.:thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

Modern Israel was not born in a single day. The first calls for a modern Israel came in 1896. Jews gathered there for the next 50 years. It was almost a year from the time there was a mention of Israel as a nation toward the end of the British Mandate until Ben-Gurion declared that Israel was an independent nation and another year before her sovereignty was recognised.

Look at verse 7 - '"Before she was in labor, she gave birth; Before her pain came, She delivered a male child.' The Jews suffered the pain of the Holocaust before she could be born as a nation.

Using your passage the birth pangs were in 1896 and delivery was not for 52 more years.

In addition we have no idea if this is the Israel prophecied - this nation could fall by the wayside and God establish His Israel in the year 2295 (or whenever).

I have always believed and still do that the allies aided/allowed the formation of the Israeli state after WWII because of a guilt complex over the holocaust.

 

[Zaac]

No offense man, but this is dispensationalist bunk. Go back and read your history and your biblical history. Israel as a politcal nation ceased to exist before Christ's time. Their "re-establishment" took decades and finally happened after a horrible tragedy.

We're 50+ years after their "re-establishment" and there hasn't been a second coming yet. And, other than some overblown Hal Lindsay-esque predictions, things don't seem to be heading in that direction.

That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:2-4

Israel isn't at the center of biblical prophecy. This is no more easily evidenced than a simple survey of book of prophecy...Revelation. Where is Israel in Revelation? Honestly, only in historical descriptives. Not predictive prophecy.

So you don't think Israel is present in the Book of Revelation? (smh)

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You're grasping at straws now because you don't want the formation of the nation in one day to actually be the formation of the nation in one day. Are y'all afraid of something?

Scripture says it does and it did on May 14, 1948.:thumbsup:

Only because of your eisegesis of scripture.

How do you deal with verse seven and the 'no labour pains' yet Israel being born as a result of the death of six million Jews?


The US celebrates it's own 'birth in one day' on 4 July 1776.
Ireland celebrates her 'birth in one day' on 24 April 1916.
Many nations claim 'one day births' that are just as accurate as your claim for Israel.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The clock started ticking down in 1948. Almost time to go.:applause:

So does that mean Jesus could not have come back until after 1948?

Even if all this 'curse Israel' philosophy relating to modern Israel is true I have to wonder if not recognising Jerusalem as capital qualifies as a curse.

 

[InTheLight]

In addition we have no idea if this is the Israel prophecied - this nation could fall by the wayside and God establish His Israel in the year 2295 (or whenever).

This is an important point and I would like to see it rebutted by someone that believes today's Israel is "the Israel" of prophecy. Since Israel has been dispersed, gathered together and elevated, judged by God, dispersed, brought together and made powerful, judged by God, dispersed, etc. many times throughout history, how can you be sure this is the last time, and this Israel is the real deal?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Reporter: “What city does this administration consider to be the capital of Israel? Jerusalem or Tel Aviv?”
Carney: “Um … I haven’t had that question in a while. Our position has not changed. Can we, uh …”

Reporter: “What is the capital [of Israel]?”
Carney: “You know our position.”

Reporter: “I don’t.”
Lester Kinsolving, World Net Daily: “No, no. She doesn’t know, that’s why she asked.”
Carney: “She does know.”

Reporter: “I don’t.”
Kinsolving: “She does not know. She just said that she does not know. I don’t know.”
Carney: “We have long, let’s not call on …”

Kinsolving: “Tel Aviv or Jerusalem?”
Carney: “You know the answer to that.”

Kinsolving: “I don’t know the answer. We don’t know the answer. Could you just give us an answer? What do you recognize? What does the administration recognize?”
Carney: “Our position has not changed.”

Kinsolving: “What position?”
Carney then moved on to another question.

Today, 7/30/2012, Romney called Jersalem the capital. Hmmm, it isn't.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/29/mitt-romney-jerusalem-israel_n_1716662.html

In 2008 Obama made the same mistake.

A person would think that a presidential candidate would know seeing as how, to win votes, all of them cowtow to Israel ... some to a greater degree than others, but still ............ and what is wrong with their advisors. Don't they have a clue either?

 

[carpro]

No president has recognised Jerusalem as capital - why the special condemnation for this one?

Really?

Barak Obama has. Maybe that's why.

 

[LadyEagle]

Today, 7/30/2012, Romney called Jersalem the capital. Hmmm, it isn't.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/29/mitt-romney-jerusalem-israel_n_1716662.html

In 2008 Obama made the same mistake.

A person would think that a presidential candidate would know seeing as how, to win votes, all of them cowtow to Israel ... some to a greater degree than others, but still ............ and what is wrong with their advisors. Don't they have a clue either?

Perhaps Mitt Romney believes in his heart that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, which goes along with Mormon teaching.

I believe Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and I am not a Mormon. There are many evangelical Christians (not on this board it seems) who believe Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and prophecy for the end times (fig leaves) regarding Israel becoming a nation in 1948, the clock started ticking.

BTW, Kudos, Zaac. Agree with you 100% on this topic. See you at the Rapture. :thumbs: