What makes the difference?

Why would it drive you insane? Why is it so hard to answer? I found it incredibly easy to give you the answers to the questions, and I used scripture to do so. Here, I'll ask another question that follows logicallly: If they are unable to hear, why are they unable to hear?

See how easy it is to answer these questions from a scriptural perspective? And what do you know? It all fits perfectly with monergy and election. It's GOD who gives people to Jesus. That's why they belong to Him. That's why they believe. If GOD does not give people to Jesus, they don't belong to him, and they don't believe. All there in black and white.

Yet you and your free-willer buddies can't even answer the free-will questions WITHOUT scripture, let alone WITH scripture.

Why not?


.

 

Wrong...but the answer I would expect, though.

 

So you say. But you still haven't answered a single thing, with or without scripture. I gave scriptural answers to everything.

In contrast, how hard is it to say "wrong!" to anything you happen to disagree with? Anyone can do it. It's the cowardly answer, because you don't have to provide anything to back it up.

 

They belong to Him because the Father gave them to Him. If the Father didn't give them to Him, they would belong to the devil.

The above is the converse of an immutable truth statement by Christ. The converse is not immutable truth...hence wrong.

 

Wrong! ;)

You are correct that the converse is not stated as an immutable truth. However, that does not make it wrong. It simply makes it POSSIBLY wrong. So what do you do to find out if it's right or wrong? You go to scripture. I gave you all the scriptures you need to figure out if it's right or wrong.

However, all this discussion is totally irrelevant to the original post. I can give you plenty of answers with respect to election. I already have. We're still waiting for YOUR answers with respect to free will. So far we've gotten zip, zilch, nada, nothing, a big goose-egg.

 

Why did the rich young ruler choose to reject Christ? In his case it was because he valued his money more than eternal salvation. The answer is different for everyone who rejects Christ. Basically, it's because they value something else in their life more than a saving relationship with Jesus.

 

What answer are you waiting for...the answer to the OP? I gave that. Page 1.

 

Then you are 99.9% wrong :)

 

I disagree with respect to the rich young ruler (I believe he was lying about his following the law from his youth, and Jesus exposed him with a request that he couldn't follow).

However, even assuming you are right, that still doesn't answer the other half of the question. Why does anyone value a saving relationship with Jesus above "the rest of the options, whatever they may be"? What makes the difference between the person who values "everything else" vs. the person who values Jesus?

Nobody is answering that. Nobody ever has, except "I don't know" or "I was raised that way".

 

Here is your answer in its entirety:

1. I showed you that the Bible states very clearly why a person doesn't follow the truth revealed to them.

2. Your answer, even based on the false premise that we cannot know why someone rejects Jesus, is that "we can't answer it". Therefore you never answered the question, and you are incorrect to say you answered it on page 1. You never answered it at all.

 

You never answer this!

Why did Paul say "examine yourselves"? Why?

Who are the blind that lead the blind, are they blind in believing their spirit bears witness with the Spirit of God?
Why were they blind?

Who are the "many" that will say in that day, "we profisied in thy name, did many wonder works and He will say "depart for I never knew you"? If you are not one of these how do you know and Why?

Why does it say to try the spirits to see if they be of God? Maybe it wasn't God's Spirit that you were bearing witness with, are you sure and if so, Why?

Why do you think they didn't hear?

 

Because how else would you know?

Well, either it is possible to know for sure (not be led by the blind), or the Bible is misleading when it says...

Why would it say that if it's not true?

Because... "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

Is it possible that I'm deceived? No, I don't think so. Just because people CLAIM that they are His by saying "Lord, Lord" doesn't mean they really believed it for the right reason.

Those people sound like they are deceived into thinking they earned their way by good works. They aren't telling Jesus, "But the Spirit bore witness with our spirit that we were children of God!" They're telling Jesus, "Lookie lookie at all the good stuff we did!!"

Um...this is just a wild shot in the dark, but maybe it tells us to test the spirits so we can find out if they're really of God? And if it's possible to find out if they are of God, then why do you doubt the answer?

The Bible says why. They do not belong to Him. They belong to their father, the devil.

You see? I did answer this. So don't say I never answer it.

 

You gave 'because' reasons...not why. At any rate, because you believe they are the correct answers doesn't make it so.

Wow...now you can read the minds of the reprobate.

 

Still waiting for you to answer the question. Saying "we can't know the answer" isn't an answer. If that's the best you can do, fine. But it's still not an answer.

Sorry, I had to go back and address "You gave 'because' reasons...not why". Huh? Why is the sky blue? Because of the way light is filtered and refracted by particles in the atmosphere. Oh, sorry, I didn't give you the why -- I just gave you a "because" reason. So that doesn't really answer the question as to why the sky is blue, right? (boggle)

 

Since I can't mind read like you...that's my answer. Final answer...

 

Has anyone ever told you how clever you are? No? Then where did you get the idea?

I gave you scripture for answers. You don't like those answers, fine, but I never claimed to read minds.

 

Then we are at an impasse. Good night. Time to log off...

 

On one hand you say the only way you would know is to examine yourselves and the other you say the Spirit bearing witness.

So, you don't "think so".

They don't hold up Npet; All those who said we Prophesied thought they were His also, All those who were blind thought they were His also. I never knew a denomination that didn't think they were His. How come you think you are the one.

Why?

Rom 10:18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

It's both examining OUR SPIRIT and the witness of THE SPIRIT. It's both. Don't blame me. It says so right there in the Bible.

I would have given you a stronger answer but I didn't want to sound arrogant. But if it suits you better, I KNOW I am not deceived. OK?

Come on, we both know there is hearing [as in hearing the words] and hearing [as in appropriating and understanding]. They could hear Jesus speak and they heard the words. They couldn't hear him, in terms of understanding.

Again, don't blame me. That's what the Bible says.

See?

 

If you have to do it over and over, there must be some times of wonderment in there, so you have to examine yourself again?

I give you scripture and you change the meaning to suit your theology, as you do in "all, whole, every man, etc".

Why don't you rightly divide the word of truth. You want me to believe they heard "Why is my language not clear to you?", and couldn't hear the rest. You want me to believe they heard "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. ", but couldn't hear the rest. :laugh: