1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured What To Think About J.D. Greear?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reformed1689, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where Greear is wrong about standing up for the rights of the LGBT, or the alphabet people, is that their rights have long been assured legally and that they themselves are the most effective at standing up for their own rights due to their strong political organizations and their immense wealth. Greear and Russell Moore are both irrelevant and they are making the SBC irrelevant. Greear is not making a legal case that the SBC has done something wrong on alphabet issues from a legal point of view that a team of lawyers could use to prosecute the SBC. Mayor Pete is running for POTUS & the candidate himself is not saying that he lacks any legal rights. Thus there is no problem and the legal system is perfectly capable of handling any criminality that might occur. Mayor Pete is a devout Episcopalian in good standing.... Greear cannot show any civil rights violations against the LGBT. The courts have ruled that The Salvation Army as a church denomination can hire people who agree with their doctrinal principles and exclude those who do not. Once Greear has finished his term as President of the SBC, he will lose influence. I myself do not understand how an SBC seminary could allow him to write a thesis about Allah being the same as the Christian God because the word Allah in Arabic means God just as the word Dios in Spanish means God or something like that? That thesis is so bad that Greear is not allowing anyone to read it online. Why doesn't Greear stand up for the rights of the LGBT to read his thesis?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,788
    Likes Received:
    698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It was Southeastern Seminary, during the Patterson regime.
    Yes, yes, who was Greear's dissertation supervisor? None other than Paige Patterson himself!

    Greear, James D., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary dissertation, "Theosis and Muslim evangelism: How the recovery of a patristic understanding of salvation can aid evangelical missionaries in the evangelization of Islamic peoples"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I see stuff like that online concerning Allah. That was J.D. Greear's thesis. Disgusting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Makes you wonder who is in charge, doesn't it? The rise and fall of Greear and the fall of Patterson.

    Greear should let people read his thesis.
     
  5. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,320
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I wish it was readily available. I'm pretty sure it isn't 200 pages of saying Muslims and Christias worship the same God, as many like to claim. The title page shows that to be untrue.

    I have a respect for any Christian who seeks to engage in apologetics in the work of evangelizing Muslims. That doesn't mean that their work is beyond critique, of course.
     
  6. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that Greear said that Muslims worship the same God but in a different way. Crabtown used to make the same assertion.
     
  7. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,320
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There's quite a few articles out there, and his book. He speaks of opening dialog (in person, face to face with Muslims, in teal life) and using their own assertion that they worship the God of Abraham as a jumping off point. I can't see how to fault him in that respect, unless we're ready to attack Paul for starting a speech by talking about worshipping an unknown god.

    I see plenty of other issues with Greear. But his work on evangelizing Muslims doesn't strike me as one of them.
     
  8. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    J.D. Greear: This is a tough question that has a considerable amount of complexity to it. But at the end of the day, I think the question of whether or not you use the Arabic name for God – Allah – is more of a practical question than a theological one.
     
  9. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,788
    Likes Received:
    698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Part of it, incuding his introductory summary, is readily available online, theme is Theosis:

    Greear, James D., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary dissertation, "Theosis and Muslim evangelism: How the recovery of a patristic understanding of salvation can aid evangelical missionaries in the evangelization of Islamic peoples"

    Greear:

    "ABSTRACT
    This dissertation suggests that the Patristic conceptualization of salvation as theosis (deification, divinization) can provide Evangelical missionaries with a paradigm useful for the explanation of the gospel to Muslims. Two major questions are addressed. The first concerns the nature of theosis itself and whether it is consistent with the Evangelical faith. The second is whether or not the doctrine of theosis more closely corresponds to the theological categories in Islam and felt needs among Muslims than does the prevailing Evangelical expression of salvation as a legal declaration of righteousness."

    "the doctrine of theosis provides a good framework for communication of the gospel to Muslims....(1) The doctrine of theosis avoids the immediate Muslim objection to penal substitution by presenting Christ’s death and resurrection as victory, by answering questions raised by the problem of death, and by providing assurance based on the confidence that Christ is at work within. (2) The doctrine of theosis provides a framework for the biblical story, about which many Muslims are curious. (3) The doctrine of theosis provides a rationale for the deity and death of Christ. (4) The doctrine of theosis exalts the God-man as the worthy intercessor which Muslims seek. (5) The doctrine of theosis meets the Muslim need for cleansing from defilement so that they might stand before Allah. (6) The doctrine of theosis fulfills the Sufi desire for communion with Allah. (7) The doctrine of theosis offers Muslims an immediate deliverance from the threats of the demonic world."
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,788
    Likes Received:
    698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    https://www.theopedia.com/theosis

    "Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature."

    "Primarily a term found in Eastern Orthodox and Eastern theology, from the Greek meaning deification or making divine, theosis is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. The terms theosis and deification may therefore be used interchangeably in this context."

    "This does not imply that we become gods, but rather, that we are to become the fullness of the 'divine image' in which we were created (Gen. 1:26), i.e. a perfect reflection of our God, and become partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet.1:4)."

    "It may be related to the Protestant concept of sanctification but goes further with what may be expected in this life, emphasizing the element of our mystical union with God in Christ. It may also be seen as something akin to the Wesleyan idea of 'entire sanctification'. However, Theosis remains a mystical concept not easily grasped and subject to various interpretations."
     
    #70 Jerome, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,320
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I didn’t think that semantics regarding a word for God were the main thrust of the objections leveled against him.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,320
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's a very intersting topic, to be sure.

    Neat timing, too. We started a study on Isaiah last night. The chaplain, an Anglican, talked in depth about chapter 6, and the need to he cleansed before communing with God, but also talked about how our attempts to articulate this must be on guard against sliding into an Eastern, pantheistic understanding.
     
  13. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,788
    Likes Received:
    698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The controversy arose regarding a book he put out later:

    THE GOSPEL COALITION • The Gospel Project's Trevin Wax interviews J.D. Greear, author of Breaking the Islam Code
    greear - Copy (2).jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the Allah of islam denies Jesus is God, so that cannot be the very same Yahweh as the Father of Jesus Christ!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Or stop saying that Islam and Christianianity hold to same God under a different name, for Allah denies Jesus is Lord, and so that "God" is spirit of antichrist!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As with EVERY author not in the Bible, has both good and bad opinions!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    J. Frank Norris gave up on them almost a century ago.
     
  19. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More like the Conspiracy to destroy Patterson. I dont care for Patterson or his looney wife, but he was done wrong. Lies abound in the attempt to conceal the conspiracy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,793
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. It is indeed that simple. Its so simple, it takes a liberal like J.D. to misunderstand it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
Loading...