John wrote in the book of Revelation, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." [Revelation 22:17]
This is to a particular group of people, that is, those who hear and are athirst. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." [John 10:27, 28] The sheep are the only ones who will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those that hear shall live. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." [John 5:25] When God breathes the Spirit of life into the dead, natural man, he shall live. There is no question about it.
What was accomplished at the cross?
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by jmbertrand, Jun 6, 2002.
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This is to a particular group of people, that is, those who hear and are athirst. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." [John 10:27, 28] The sheep are the only ones who will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those that hear shall live. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." [John 5:25] When God breathes the Spirit of life into the dead, natural man, he shall live. There is no question about it.</font>[/QUOTE]The passage you used in John says that sheep do hear the voice, but there is not an already defined number of sheep. It is just as possible that those who do hear the voice become sheep when joining with a faith relationship with God.
Considering that the Holy Spirit's job is to draw all men to him, it would seem that we have a paradox with your passage in John 5:25. Maybe to hear takes an active choice - it means to listen, similar to he that can hear, let him hear. -
We must accept both teachings. They are difficult to understand, but so are the doctrines of the Trinity, the virgin birth, etc. As we are told in the Bible, we walk by faith and not by sight.
One redeemed by Christ's blood,
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Even your the little statement you use as an example shows a causal relationship, for the word "so" is also a "cause" word. If they didn't believe at first, so they don't believe now.", then not believing now is a result of not believing at first. (If you don't want to show a causal relationship, then use the conjunction "and" between the phrases. The word "so", just like the word because, makes one phrase the cause of the other.) -
You are reading cause words into the text where there are none, and ignoring the cause words that are there. -
Even your the little statement you use as an example shows a causal relationship, for the word "so" is also a "cause" word. If they didn't believe at first, so they don't believe now.", then not believing now is a result of not believing at first. (If you don't want to show a causal relationship, then use the conjunction "and" between the phrases. The word "so", just like the word because, makes one phrase the cause of the other.)</font>[/QUOTE]This would be true if the word "because" was the Greek word "hoti." It isn't - it's the word "gar."
The verse DOESN'T specify what it means to become a sheep. It doesn't say that the sheep were picked from an eternity past. It just says that the sheep now do not believe. As to the next verse, I would still maintain that akouo is an active word - (It's an active tense in the Greek). To become a sheep, you must "listen" first for the call, and then follow. -
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Your reading must be a variant of the text, but I couldn't find it listed.
And it is adding a causal idea that is contradictory to the one causal statement that is actually in the text, the one in verse 26. -
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"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." [John 10:26]
Christ's sheep hear His voice, and the goats do not. Christ will separate the two at the end of the world. Belief doesn't make one a sheep but manifests one to be a sheep. Sheep are sheep whether they have yet been born again or not. Jesus had sheep of another fold, Gentiles, who had not yet heard the gospel. In fact, there were sheep before Christ ever came to earth.
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd." [John 10:16]
"All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." [John 10:28] -
How bizarre! I looked up my trusty Greek NT by Metzger and pals and there it was - "hoti". Look at the greek on blueletter.com (It's the one I use when I'm at work). It's got "gar." I've never seen them make a mistake like that. I offer my humble apologies!Click to expand...
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Originally posted by ScottEmerson
How bizarre! I looked up my trusty Greek NT by Metzger and pals and there it was - "hoti". Look at the greek on blueletter.com (It's the one I use when I'm at work). It's got "gar." I've never seen them make a mistake like that. I offer my humble apologies!Click to expand...
I didn't know that site existed. I really like it....even though they got that verse wrong.Click to expand...
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." (John 10:26)
In His Grace
KayDee
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