Ahhhh, so there is the crux of the argument then!
well was Paul a believer or was he a killer of Christians?
Was Augustine a believer or a scoffer & fornicator?
I dont know......why do I suddenly believe where I never before believed
LETS ASK WINMAN!
When did you Receive The Sin nature?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Nov 3, 2011.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
None of these verses mention faith, or regeneration. Thats the verse I want you to offer:laugh: The one that says faith precedes regeneration, you or Amy cannot show it:wavey:
Winman, I do not want your speculation or philosophy...I want the verse that says faith precedes regeneration. -
FAL, here is scripture that shows you have to believe before the word of God effectually works in you.
1 Thes 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
You have to believe the word of God for it to effectually (bring about an effect) works in you. If you do not believe, you are like the wayside soil that is hard and trampled down, the seed lies on the surface and the fowls come and take it away. You do not spring to life. -
Since faith comes from the words about Jesus and the words of Jesus which is Spirit and life you can't have faith or life without His word period. So our faith has to come first and through these words brings us our faith and life.
When we walk away from Christ and His word we walk away from our only life, apart from Him death.
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Philippians 2:16
as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.
1 John 1:1
[ The Incarnation of the Word of Life ] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. -
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
This was spoken only to Jesus's disciples, but it clearly shows those who followed him shall sit on thrones in the regeneration. This implies faith, true believers are followers.
Titus 3:5 does not mention faith, so it cannot be used to support either side.
Regeneration by definition means to be generated, or made alive again. Many verses say you must believe to have life or regeneration.
Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If regeneration means life (and it does) then you must believe to HAVE life or regeneration.
You don't have scripture on your side, but I do. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Winman
You failed to produce the scripture that says otherwise...because you cannot.
This is not a surprise. The historic faith stands...your ideas do not overturn the Historic belief of the church. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So winman you havent answered my question then.....How could I have been regenerated without Believing?
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Winman....did Paul have faith when he was killing Christians......how did he fall off that horse?
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What does John 3:16 show comes first, believeing or having life? -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Calvinism says the spiritually dead are not able to be willing to hear Jesus, but Jesus said they could, and those that hear him SHALL live.
You can deny all you want, but that does not make you right.
You show no scripture that supports your doctrine, I have shown you much that supports mine but you deny it. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Then forget about me....tell me how Paul did it with being a murderer & a hater of Christ...how did that happen!
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Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
This was the first time Paul called Jesus "Lord". He had not believed Jesus was the promised Christ before this and was persecuting Christians. The moment he believed his heart was changed and he served Jesus from this moment forwards. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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How in the world could his attitude toward Jesus change if he still believed Jesus was a false prophet? How could he desire to serve Jesus if he did not believe him?
You think I am your enemy now, but if I show you scripture that convinces you I am telling the truth, your attitude toward me will change.
Faith MUST precede the change of heart. Besides being logical, it is what the scriptures actually say. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
(2) Can you define for me "the sin of unbelief"....I invite anyone else as well to define it & include it's characteristics HOWEVER I would like WINMAN to answer as well.
Thanks -
#2 Unbelief can very simply be defined to be calling God a liar.
1 Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
So, unbelief is calling God a liar, it is saying that the word of God is a lie. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
n
(Christian Religious Writings / Theology) disbelief or rejection of belief
You see the subtle difference, right.
Now, "Does the cross cover the sin of unbelief"? -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It is your supposition that anyone can.....am I correct?
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