When is it ok to leave a church?

[rbell]

I didn't understand the OP to be as Bapmom says...

The OP is wrestling with a tough decision, and gave us background info.

And I do have a problem with pastors that lay a guilt trip on folks who think about leaving a church for some of the reasons that have been listed. I've had to clean up too many of those messes these guys have caused.


I also have a semantic point to make: I usually refrain from referring to a church's standards as "higher" or "lower." The number of rules you have is not the indicator of your level of righteousness before God. I prefer "stricter" or "more relaxed" than "higher" and "lower." But that's just me, eh?

 

[tfisher1]

I absolutely had no intention of villifying the church. You have no idea of the dark cloud hanging over our heads because of this right now. I intentionally left out things of a more personal nature regarding the pastor so as not to slam him over his personality, methods etc... Like I said... its not just 1 or 2 small issues that I'm 'whining' over. Its the whole of the matter. Many issues that add up to our considering leaving. We are in the 'seeking Godly counsel' phase right now, that's all. So far, it seems as if the Godly counsel is pointing to the exit sign.
I have also sought the counsel of a pastor friend from out of state, and also a relative who is a key leader in a large fundamental institution that is spoken of alot on this board.

thanks,

PS. I still don't think mentioning any of these things to the Pastor will help, only hurt. Several years ago we had a minor split with some people who were disgruntled about some things. For years we heard messages about "wolves" within the church. So many messages on the authority of the Pastor, the role of the Pastor, dangers of backbiting and stabbing him in the back. I'm not talking about one or two, I'm talking literally for months if not years we heard probably 2 a month. And we still get at least one a month. IN fact, we just got the message about 3 Sunday nights ago on how the Pastor is God's man (I agree, to a point) and we better beware of being critical of him. And you better only leave over a gross doctrinal error or you might even be out from under a special grace that he thinks might be on people in good bible-believing churches...
Now that may clear things up some.

 

[PJ]

Originally posted by tfisher1:
I absolutely had no intention of villifying the church. You have no idea of the dark cloud hanging over our heads because of this right now. Several years ago we had a minor split with some people who were disgruntled about some things. For years we heard messages about "wolves" within the church. So many messages on the authority of the Pastor, the role of the Pastor, dangers of backbiting and stabbing him in the back. I'm not talking about one or two, I'm talking literally for months if not years we heard probably 2 a month. And we still get at least one a month. IN fact, we just got the message about 3 Sunday nights ago on how the Pastor is God's man (I agree, to a point) and we better beware of being critical of him. And you better only leave over a gross doctrinal error or you might even be out from under a special grace that he thinks might be on people in good bible-believing churches...
Now that may clear things up some.

Whew! Rely on the Lord ... He will lead the way.

 

[Ransom]

tfisher1 said:

1. Our church's music stance is much different than my own. The church stands that CCM is bad, hymns are good. I like some CCM and have no problem being discerning in what myself and my family listen to.

Music is unnecessarily divisive. But on the other hand, I don't think it's something to leave a church over (I advocate so-called "blended" worship services, so I'm equally comfortable with traditional or contemporary music).

2. Our church's unwritten code that all women must wear a dress or skirt to church is getting a little old. My wife believes she only does it so people won't look down on her.

This is a red flag to me. I'd feel differently if there were a written dress code, but the fact that there is an "unwritten rule" which your wife feels pressured to obey, suggests that she is being compelled to go against her conscience in a non-essential matter - which is sin (Rom. 14:23).

3. The church is very standards oriented. ( the 'higher' they are, the more God is pleased with you, along with everyone else.

Yeah, the Pharisees had the same attitude.

4. Attitude of anyone who is not a "fundamentalist" is a compromiser. We are bible-believing. (and the others don't believe the Bible??)

So they are borderline schismatic. Historically speaking, schismatics were treated as seriously as heretics, though the denominationalism of the post-Reformation church has mitigated this to a serious extent. Nonetheless, I don't think very highly of people who denigrate the faith of other brothers merely because they come from a different tradition.

5. Very hostile towards Calvinism, and considers those who adhere to the doctrines of Grace to be deceived, foolish, fatalistic....etc... etc... Its not just that we don't agree, its his delivery when railing against it. Very crass, demeaning to good men when he decides to go on a tangent.

It could be argued that such a one is formally unqualified to pastor ("not quarrelsome . . ." [1 Tim. 3:3]).

I agree with others in this thread that it's a serious matter to walk away from a local church, not something to be done lightly. But given what you've said about this particular assembly, I can't see anything to recommend it. It's pretty much the opposite of what the Bible says the church ought to be.

 

[drfuss]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tfisher1:
I absolutely had no intention of villifying the church. You have no idea of the dark cloud hanging over our heads because of this right now. Several years ago we had a minor split with some people who were disgruntled about some things. For years we heard messages about "wolves" within the church. So many messages on the authority of the Pastor, the role of the Pastor, dangers of backbiting and stabbing him in the back. I'm not talking about one or two, I'm talking literally for months if not years we heard probably 2 a month. And we still get at least one a month. IN fact, we just got the message about 3 Sunday nights ago on how the Pastor is God's man (I agree, to a point) and we better beware of being critical of him. And you better only leave over a gross doctrinal error or you might even be out from under a special grace that he thinks might be on people in good bible-believing churches...
Now that may clear things up some.


Sounds like you have a very insecure pastor. Anytime a pastor (or any leader) has to invoke his position, he is no longer the leader, but is the self-proclaimed boss.

IF the pastor is trusting the Lord as he should, he would be preaching the word rather than trying to intimidate people.

If people accept and believe this type of preaching, they will eventually fall for anything a pastor says.

Reminds me of something years ago when a pastor got into trouble, one of the officers in the church told me "I don't care what he has done, he is my pastor and I will support him". Now Who was the officer worshipping?

Sounds like your church situation will get worse, not better.

 

[Brother Bob]

After listening to all the discussion on this thread I think you might be doing yourself and the Pastor a favor by moving to another church. I don't see any room for compromise after the feelings you have exposed here and maybe the feelings of the Pastor also. To sit in a church with that kind of feelings I don't think you could be an upbuilding to that church. I may be a little harsh but seems to me that it has already come to this stage. I pray for you and hope you will find peace.

 

[tfisher1]

Thanks Brother Bob and everyone else... you may be right. Maybe it has gotten too far already and unless God does a work in my heart to change my thinking and feelings on these things, then it would be better for the Pastor and for my own family if I were too quietly bow out. Maybe this is God moving me somewhere else to use me in a different way.

thanks

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Church is not a prison. Don't feel guilty about moving to another congregation. If you are not being fed, go to a different cafeteria. Different congregations have different styles, teachings, etc. Find one where you and your family can fully participate.