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Featured Where does Faith come from?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by davidtaylorjr, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    We are not arguing against grace through faith. What I am arguing against is the idea that faith is not also a gift and that somehow we accomplish that faith on our own.

    So I ask @Van, and others, this simple question. Where does faith come from? Does faith come from God or does it come from within ourselves?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Has to be from God, as Paul stated that was so Ephesians 2:8-10, if faith is somehow in us all, why do some believe then and some do not? Would no God be respecting and giving credit to those who "co operated" with Him to save them?
     
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  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Active Member
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    I know!

    I know!

    Pick me!! Pick me!!
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Marooncat79, you have your hand up.... :Biggrin
     
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  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Faith must come from God. The fact that humans are born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1; Colossian 2:13) and incapable of any positive action towards God (1 Corinthians 2:14) makes that abundantly clear.
     
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  6. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    I would expect @Van to say that faith comes from God as a gift. That is not where the disagreement lies.
    The question is whether God gifts all humans with the opportunity to activate faith when He creates humans or whether faith is a gift given only to the elect, after the elect are made alive with Christ.
    Van seems to believe that God has given faith to all humanity. It is up to each person as to whether they will use that faith to activate God's gracious work of salvation.
    Ultimately it is similar to the view I once held, which is that the only sin that keeps us out of heaven is the sin of unbelief. God gives us the opportunity to activate faith and we either do so or we reject such faith. Rejection leads to damnation. Van then declares that the person who chooses to activate faith can never undo it. Faith is turned on forever and salvation is secured unto eternity. (OSAS)

    So, in both views, God is gifting faith. The questions are:
    When?
    With whom? (all or just some)
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Please describe what you mean by accomplish faith on our own
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Psalm 16:2 I say to the LORD, “You are my Lord; apart from you I have no good thing .”
     
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  9. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    Yes? You are up to bat!
     
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  10. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting point. If that faith is counted to Abraham as righteousness, and it was, and everyone has faith, we are not all counted as righteous?
     
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  11. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    It seems that some argue here that faith is not a gift from God and it is somehow something we do on our own through our own willpower. Does that help clarify?
     
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  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    If the heart is not change by God, where is the faith?... Brother Glen:)
     
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  13. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Correct
    That would be where grace comes in. God will graciously choose to consider one person's faith as righteousness, because they chose to believe, while counting another person's faith as unrighteousness because they chose to not believe. Abraham's faith was considered as righteousness because he chose to believe. Judas's faith was considered as unrighteousness because he chose to reject. Faith is therefore neutral and choice is the activator that God looks at to determine whether it falls in the positive or the negative side. What God chooses to declare is final and just.
     
  14. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    Which amounts to works-based in my opinion. If we have to literally do something before God makes the choice, that's works based.
     
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The person who exercises faith would be the one that god has regenerated in order to have them enabled to do that, they would be the very elect of God!
     
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he grants that faith to just His own, as he also regenerates them to be able to do that!
     
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  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    The view is similar to Roman Catholic teaching when they use the term "grace." Humans must do something. God is not obligated to give humans anything. But, God looks upon their use of the faith they were given and God makes the choice. He either graciously calls it righteous or he justly calls it unrighteous. God still makes the call, but humans have to do something upon which God can make a decision.
    Do you see the twisted mindset that turns works into grace? I held that view for years until I invested myself in understanding what God was saying about his choosing, his election and his predestination. It was 20 some years into Christian life before I understood God's biblical role in my salvation. I had a twisted understanding. God was kind in working out my salvation with fear and trembling.
     
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  18. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    This is the position that you and I hold. I expect that Van disagrees and holds a view where God gives faith to all humanity and expects humans to use that faith to glorify Him. Those who do so will be counted as righteous. Those who don't will be counted as wicked.
    God decides, which is his act of grace to some and justice to the others.
    The unforgivable sin is therefore...unbelief.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Unless God enables them to receive Jesus to save them, all will keep on rejecting him...
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    That question has been asked and answered dozen of times. Just quote the answer then actually address the answer. Stop repeating the question.
     
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