Where is the scripture that says, “All humans are born totally depraved”? Please quote just one scripture. The one scripture has to say it simply and plainly, it cannot merely sound like it. It cannot be an assumption, but a clear and direct statement.
Where is it in the Bible
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Mar 6, 2012.
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In order to answer your question, I would need to know (briefly) what you, Moriah, understand by the phrase "Total Depravity".
For example, if you are using it to mean something like: "Every human being who has ever lived is as derpraved as he/she could possibly be," then I would say that such a notion isn't in the bible. Indeed, quite the opposite is true, for Jesus said in Matthew 7.9-11:
"9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!"On the other hand, if you mean by it that every aspect of our lives is tainted by sin, that would be a different matter entirely.
Or, of course, you may mean neither of those things. :) -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The Bible teaches that the carnal mind is incapable of understanding spiritual things - 1 Cor. 2:14 "Neither can he know them"
The Bible teaches that other than Jesus Christ there is "no flesh" not one human being that God regards as "good" or "righteous" in "all the world" - Rom. 3:10-11, 19-20.
The Bible teaches that no man has ability to come to Christ in faith except it is given unto him by the Father - John 6:64-65. "No man CAN come to me except..."
The Bible teaches that there is nothing "good" in the flesh (Rom. 7:18).
The Bible teaches that men come into the world condemned already because they love darkness and hate the light and will not come to the light (Jn. 3:18-20).
The Bible teaches that man is as incapable of changing his inclination to evil as the lepord is incapable of changing his spots and the Ethiopion is incapble of changing the color of his skin as all these things are characteristic of each from birth by nature - Jer. 13:23
The Bible teaches that all men are sinners by nature from the womb - Isa. 48:8; Psa. 51:3; Job 14:1-4; 15:14; 25:23; etc.
However, you are not interested in the scriptures at all. You are simply so full of venom against the truth and you simply want an opportunity to vent your venom regardless of what the Scriptures teach. -
Romans 3:23 tells us we all are sinners and come short of God's glory. As Brother David asked, it depends on what you mean by "Totally depraved". This doesn't mean you are as bad as you can be.
I'm assuming you don't believe we are born with original sin. I must ask then can a person be saved w/o Christ? -
You hold to humans are born in that state, and than lose it when we sin, and get it back when born again again? -
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Total depravity cannot be found in the Bible. This believe came into Christianity from Gnosticism via St. Augustine and then Calvin. I doubt that Calvin knew that Augustine brought this believe into Christianity from his years as a Gnostic. Calvin was a great admirer of Augustine.
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Just as trinity was a concept found in the scriptures and labeled with a name when recognized by such by church...
Same fashion, this concept throughout the scriptures, and was given a name later on! -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Having said that, I do not believe the concept of total depravity can be found in the Bible. It is easily traced from Calvin to Augustine to the Gnostic beliefs and writings. IMHO it is a tragedy that Augustine brought it into Christianity from his days of being a gnostic.
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The purpose of my earlier post was no more than to ask the OP what he/she thought "total depravity" is. -
No one can give me a scripture that says all are totally depraved, because there is no such scripture.
Thank you for your reply. -
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