If I had a quarter for each time I heard or was told my views on soteriology exalt man, I would be a lot closer to retirement.
I see Christ's atonement appeasing God's wrath against sin, death and the curse, man not perishing for want of payment of sin, but for rejection. Christ is the only one able to pay an infinite penalty against the Father, and He did just that.
The limited atoners believe Christ payed for the sin of the "elect", with the reprobate also making their payment for sin in hell for eternity. This means God is satisfied with both payments, hence elevating the lost's payment on par with Christs pertaining expiation.
Who's view really elevates man more, the one that believes only Christ is able to make sufficient payment for sin...or the one that teaches both man and Christ equally pay for the same thing equally satisfying the offended?
Which view really exalts man?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Apr 19, 2012.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
man...unable to pay satisfactorally....pays an eternal price of seperation...neverending....he remains in the realm of sin and death,in a cycle that does not stop. -
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Well, in Hebrew 2:9, it states that Jesus tasted death for every man. In John 12:32, Jesus stated that,"If I be lifted up, will draw all men unto me." Seems like Jesus paid the sin debt in full for all, and those who will accept salvation according to the terms of the gospel(repent and believe), will be saved. However, many will reject the invitation and die in unbelief, and suffer for all eternity because of it.
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Christ's payment on the cross is of infinite value sufficient to atone for the sins of everyone. Not everyone will believe. Those that don't believe will for an infinite amount of time suffer in hell for their sins. They have not received the benefits of the atonement and must suffer for his sins. If Christ's atonement was sufficient for all and efficient for all, then none would be in hell because the sin of unbelief would have also been paid for. We all will be judged in the end. The believers("sheep") will go to heaven because he will be righteous because of the imputed righteousness of Christ. Those that don't believe("goats") will be judged "according to their works" and will have to suffer the penalty of their sin.
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Desiring...like many of us, to take a random and unnecessarry pot-shot at my Calvinist brethren's Theology...I looked at this thread but honestly....I don't see what the problem is supposed to be...Maybe you can explain in more detail webdog? I may be missing something, but infinite perfection was crucified on the cross....the unrepentant will spend an eternity infinite time (so to speak) in punishment for their un-belief.
If....Calvinists see the whole thing as though there were some kind of "sum total" of payment for an amalgam of various crimes with a varying, yet ultimate "payment in full" balance due....then I reject that view of the atonement: but as I see it....
1.) Infinite perfection/holiness offended with sin
2.) Infinite perfection/holiness punished at the cross
3.) Infinite loss in Hell for non-believers
4.) Infinite joy/blessedness for the redeemed....
Infinity + 1 = absurdity
Along the same vein however.... if our determinist friends would suggest that sins are paid for "twice"....from a non-Cal view...see above:
Infinity either plus or minus 1 is absurd -
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To believe in a universal atonement, is to deny the Biblical doctrine of spiritual union with Christ. Romans 6:6 says that our 'old man' was crucified WITH Jesus, when He was on the cross. Not EVERYONE's "old man"...just believers. Just sheep. Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ..." -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Man gets paid the reward of unrighteousness
Those in heaven who sowed to the Spirit have a reward,having laid up treasure in heaven as Jesus taught.
The idea you seem to be suggesting of man somehow paying,or earning enough merit to escape torment does not seem to be found in scripture,
It is not in LK.16...the rich man had no such hope.
In eph2 unsaved man is described as without God,having no hope. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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It seems to me that people who spend a lot of time debating learn to depend on their ability to make an argument more than they do scripture.
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