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Featured Who was the first Jew?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by church mouse guy, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    To me myself, the first Jew is Adam himself.

    On another note, I want to say what Scripture teaches about Noah because I myself never fully considered Noah until Ken Ham stated somewhere what Genesis says about Noah:

    Genesis 5:28-32 (KJV) And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed. And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Being a Jew was not about birth. It begins with the Hebrews and Abraham's household, none of whom, were related to him except Ishmael at the time God implemented circumcision to make one his covenant seed. These became Israel, called both Hebrews and Israel in Egypt. Later God would call Christ, Abraham's seed (according to Paul) through Isaac. But any born to Isaac were not members of Israel unless circumcised.
     
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    So you are saying that Abraham is the first Jew.
     
  4. Ready to Harvest

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    Adam was the first worshipper of Jehovah, and so the first follower of the religion that would become known as Judaism and later Christianity.

    Ethnically, Abraham was the first Jew, and descendants down a specific line of his are Jews.
    Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    Descendants of Jacob through Isaac and Abraham are Jews, and Abraham himself was the first.
     
  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, it's strange in a sense because to me Noah is a Jewish prophet so I don't know what to call the people who believed from Adam to Abraham. They are so real.
     
  6. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Judah was the first “Jew”.
    Jacob was the first “Israel”
    Adam was the first “Man”

    This isn’t that complicated.
    So why do theologians feel the need to go and muddy up terms? :Barefoot
     
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  7. Ready to Harvest

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    Worshippers of Jehovah. They were Christians, but just didn't know the name of the Christ (messiah) yet.
     
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  8. Ready to Harvest

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    Heber was the first Hebrew
     
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  9. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure what is meant by the question.
    The first individual identified as a Jew is Mordecai, a Benjamite -
    Est. 2:5 Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;

    "Strong's Number H3064 matches the Hebrew יְהוּדִי (Yĕhuwdiy),
    which occurs 76 times in 70 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV"
    The first usage is as a general term for members of the tribe of Judah -
    2 Kings 16:6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.

    The term comes into use as a general term for the Israelites at the time of the return from exile, particularly by Nehemiah & Esther & Jeremiah.
     
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  10. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    But, I think you were asking a different question, like -
    "Who was the first saved person in the line that led to Jesus?"​

    It is generally accepted that the sacrifices that provided clothing for Adam & Eve indicate a sin offering made before their expulsion from Eden, however, Abel is named as the first man of faith in Heb. 11. That may mean that Adam was unsaved, but God provided a sacrifice for outward, ritual cleansing. See Heb. 9.

    We read of Eve's faith in Gen. 4, but not of Adam's. Calling on the name of the LORD begins with Seth.

    Certainly Noah was saved - but the line diverges with his sons, with Shem & a few generations later, Abram. With Abram, God begins specifically relating to Abraham & his descendants & Seed.

    While "Jew" specifically refers to the tribe of Judah, I suggest that to answer your question, Abraham was the first "Jew" in the sense of term used in the post-exile OT, the NT & now used for all who claim descent from Abraham.
     
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  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Since you mention Adam, Covenanter, I have a book about him but you know what King Solomon said: Ecclesiastes 12:12 (KJV) And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books [there is] no end; and much study [is] a weariness of the flesh. But it seems to me that Adam has to have been the smartest man ever to live. People say that King Solomon was, but Adam must have had the greatest mental capacity since he was perfect. And on the question of genetics, how could King Solomon be smarter than Adam since we all were in Adam? 1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Some say that the Garden of Eden only lasted about a month before we were kicked out forever.

    At any rate, thank you for your very good answers! I think that it was in the Ark Encounter in Kentucky where there was a sign that said of Noah: Genesis 5:29 (KJV) And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
     
  12. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    As Jesus was a Jew, he is the first Jew - the same yesterday, today & forever.
     
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  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Very good!
     
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  14. TS_TS

    TS_TS New Member

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    Jesus became a Jew when he became incarnate. He was not always born, he was born at a point of time two thousand years ago. His sameness doesnt refer to everything, because that leads to illogical conclusions. If he is the same always, did he always have nailprints in his hands too? No.
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Jesus became a Jew when they circumcised him on the 8th day. Even though he always was Israel.
     
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  16. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    True circumcision is of the heart, NOT the flesh.
    Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, andnot in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Jesus is the guarantor of the Everlasting Covenant & needed no Covenant sign. He took the Old Covenant sign as an infant, to identify himself with the Covenant people - the Jews/Israelites/seed of Abraham, took the ceremonial washing sign of baptism at his anointing, and gave the New Covenant sign of bread & wine at his death.

    At his incarnation, Jesus became Man, born as a Jew under the Law. But at creation man was made in the image of his Creator.
     
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  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The first Jew was Jacob's son Judah. After all, "Jew" is a handle for "Judean".

    There were no Jews before Judah.
     
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  18. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    That is too simple an answer to the question. Especially as the first man identified as a Jew is Mordechai - a Benjamite - Esther 2:5

    I suggest that John 1 is a full answer to the OP identifying Jesus as the FIRST in every respect.
     
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  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The KJV first uses "Jews" in 2 Kings 16:6. That was before Mordecai.

    And remember, the Jews are defined as members of the tribes of Judah, Benjanin, & Levi.

    From the Online Etymology Dictionary:
    "Date 12c., Giw, Jeu, "a Jew (ancient or modern), one of the Jewish race or religion," from Anglo-French iuw, Old French giu (Modern French Juif), from Latin Iudaeum (nominative Iudaeus), from Greek Ioudaios, from Aramaic (Semitic) jehudhai (Hebrew y'hudi) "a Jew," from Y'hudah "Judah," literally "celebrated," name of Jacob's fourth son and of the tribe descended from him. Spelling with J- predominated from 16c. Replaced Old English Iudeas "the Jews," which is from Latin. As an offensive and opprobrious term, "person who seeks gain by sordid means," c. 1600. Jews' harp "simple mouth harp" is from 1580s, earlier Jews' trump (1540s); the connection with Jewishness is obscure, unless it is somehow biblical. In uneducated times, inexplicable ancient artifacts were credited to Jews, based on the biblical chronology of history: such as Jews' money (1570s) "Roman coins found in England." In Greece, after Christianity had erased the memory of classical glory, ruins of pagan temples were called "Jews' castles," and in Cornwall, Jews' houses was the name for the remains of ancient tin-smelting works."


    Judah, "Yehudah" in Hebrew, means 'praised'.

    "Judith" is the Anglicized form of " 'Yehudith', the feminized form of 'Yehudha', which means "son of Yehudah". It's not known if anyone was named Judah before Jacob's son was, as there's little history in existence of peoples who used the same language as Jake's family at that time.

    There simply were NOT any Jews before Jacob's son Judah. However, there were Israelis from the time God changed Jacob's name to Israel.)[/I]
     
  20. TS_TS

    TS_TS New Member

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    This is just a fallacy of naming. Nobody was called a Jew until at least Judah because the name etymologically comes from Judah. However, except for some terse grammarians, it is universally accepted that "Jew" in the modern sense refers to one from any of the twelve tribes.

    This is even so still pedantic because OP has not clarified what he meant by the question. If what he meant was "who was the first follower of the religion that became Judaism and then Christianity?" The answer is Adam.

    If the question is "who was the first person who used the title of 'Jew'", we dont know.

    If the question is "Who was the first being in existance for all time who can claim to be a Jew", then it would be Christ, although he became a Jew at his incarnation.

    If the question is "Who is the progenitor of the ethnic group now commonly referred to as Jews" you could argue Abraham, or perhaps Jacob, since both Abraham and Isaac had descendants that are notably not Jews, namely Ishmael and Esau.

    If the question is "if we take the etymology of the word "Jew" and apply it out of context as a replacement of the proper definition of the word 'Jew' today, whi would the first Jew be?" you get Judah.
     
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