1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Who was the first Jew?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by church mouse guy, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,479
    Likes Received:
    3,566
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Absolutely. "Jew" isn't an Old Testament word and it doesn't mean a practitioner of today's Judaism. In the NT it typically simply means "Israelite" - or child of Abraham (through Jacob).

    And you're welcome. :Thumbsup
     
  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,329
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And Godsaid unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. Hosea 1:6
    Are those underlined Jews?


    But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Hosea 1:7
    Are those underlined Jews?

    Hosea 1:8-9 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
    Was this said to those no longer with mercy or both?

    Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.

    What about the good and bad figs of Jeremiah 24? House of Judah or House of Israel?
    Was some of the House of Judah also scattered through the nations?

    Who was in the land when, the Judean, Jesus of Nazareth, was born? The House of Judah or the House of Israel?

    Throughout history; What has been the one thing that has most identified a Jew? Is it not the keeper of the sabbaths? Plural.
    How did Hitler know who to check up on?

    And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
    So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense. 1 Kings 12:32,33

    Did Jeroboam change at least one of God's sabbaths?

    Is it possible he also changed others?

    Hosea 2:4,11
    And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they bethe children of whoredoms. I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.


    The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
     
  3. GenevanBaptist

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    13
    So. To answer the question: Judah, son of Jacob.

    If you want to pay homage to a spiritual Jew, why?

    Paul only brought it up because there was a snooty attitude from some just because they WERE Jewish.

    Really the question should more appropriately be - who was the first Christian?
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    To define the Jews, WE MUST GO TO SCRIPTURE. After all, "Jew" is an English term for "Judean"

    "Judah" is an anglicized form of "Yĕhuwdah", the man's name in Hebrew. In 2 kings 16:6, where the term "Jew" first appears in English Bibles, the word in hebrew is"Yĕhuwdiy".
    Again, nowhere does Scripture say "a Jew of the tribe of Dan" or similar.
    Now, when God separated the people of Judah from the rest of Israel, the small tribe of Benjamin remained loyal to Rehoboam, David's grandson, as Judah had done, & soon the Levites migrated to Judah when Jeroboam fired them as priests. So the Jews became made up of the peoples of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi, and none other. (Except a few individuals from other tribes, who soon were assimilated into the Jews.)

    When Scripture mentions "Judah" or "Jews" as a people, it's speaking only of those three tribes. When Scripture says "Israel" or "jacob", it's speaking of all 12 tribes. Now, while some people today wanna call all Israelis "Jews", that's simply incorrect according to Scripture!

    And let us remember that GOD promised to make Israel & Judah into one nation again. So, the other Israelis are "somewhere out there", but not knowing their national identity. But GOD knows, & he will make it known to them when the time comes! remember, he said they'd be sifted thru every nation!

    Amos 9:9 “For surely I will command,And will sift the house of Israel among all nations, As grain is sifted in a sieve;Yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground."

    Please note God said, "THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL", that is, ALL Israelis, not just the Jews!


    So, the first Jew was Judah, son of Jacob!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is the etymology source of the word "Jew" but not its full scope.

    If the limited etymology of definition satisfies people then that is their choice.

    One who is born of a Jewish mother, circumcised , and covenanted to the Torah (Bar/Bas Mitzvah) is a Jew.
    Even a converted Gentile who must be mikvah-ed as well.

    Who Is a Jew? - Solving the Mystery of Jewish Identity
     
  6. GenevanBaptist

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    13
    Great job of explaining - I agree 1000 per cent!!

    (Although I could give my opinion about the validity of those calling themselves Jews today but aren't...)
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There's a mistaken view today that those who call themselves Jews are actually "Ashkenazi", but, while some may be, SCRIPTURE says the jews will be here FOR EVER, and so will all the other tribes of Israel. Scripture is always 100% right, so there's no way any tribe of Israel has gone extinct. We, or they, may not know their identities now, but GOD does, and that's all that matters!

    But, back to the theme of this thread - I believe it's well-established that "Jew" is a nickname for "Judean", which is a member of the tribe of Judah, Levi, ot Benjamin, so the very first actual Jew HAS to be Judah, son of Jacob!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Supposedly the Ashkenazim are "Jews" by proselytism, the Sephardim by blood.
     
  9. GenevanBaptist

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    13
    Revelation 3:9 says there are people of the synagogue of Satan calling themselves Jews but aren't.

    Shows a bit of truth about what could be.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Most of the genealogies were blurred at the Roman invasion of 70 AD, but the history of those who've called themselves Jews makes it clear they're considered Jews by God, especially in modern times. When the holocaust was over, many Jews of Europe migrated to Palestine, and only a very dense person can't see the HAND OF GOD at work to make them a strong people, going from rabble to a force which has kicked the Egyptians' & Arabs' butts in several wars in the last 73 years, BECOMING A SOVEREIGN NATION AGAIN, WITH JERUSALEM AS THEIR CAPITAL AGAIN, & are the "pound-for-pound" military champs of all time up to now.

    Yes, there have been, & will be, some false Jews trying to sneak onto that Jewish train of success. God will sort'em out when the time comes.
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are acceptable by the nation of Israel for citizenship under the Law of Return.
     
  12. GenevanBaptist

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    13
    But of course.
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    For years my family was under the impression that my maternal grandmother was of Irish descent (family name misspelled) however my sister's research (she suddenly became interested in these things) through her birth records found that my maternal grandmother was of eastern European (Prussian) geography but had a Jewish maiden name which was of western European (not eastern) bloodlines (confirmed by my DNA)

    We had thought she was Ashkenazi but she was probably Sephardic.

    She came to the US in the late 1800's and missed the Holocaust.
    She married an Italian immigrant, gave birth to my mother who married a 2nd generation Italian-American citizen and here am I.

    Hitler would have had me "neutralized".
     
  14. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,570
    Likes Received:
    22
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The first Christian was Abraham:

    Gal 3:6-9 NASB 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

    Rom 4:8-13 NASB 8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    16 For this reason [it is] by faith, in order that [it may be] in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, [even] God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

    Gen 15:5-6 NASB 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

    Gen 17:4-10 NASB 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. 7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." 9 God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.

    Ephesians 1:7
    In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
    13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

    Colossians 2:11
    and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;


    Deuteronomy 30:6
    “Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.


    Jeremiah 4:4
    “Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Or else My wrath will go forth like fire And burn with none to quench it, Because of the evil of your deeds.”



    The distinction of "Jew" is irrelevant... it's really circumcised or uncircumcised. Those considered "part of the everlasting covenant" and those who are not. Abraham was the one to whom that covenant of righteousness by faith was given, and then he was promised that all of "descendants" would inherit that righteousness. There are 2 versions of circumcision counted in the Torah & in The Prophets - the foreskin and the heart. Those who are Jews outwardly are circumcised in their foreskins, those who are Jews inwardly are cicumcised in the heart. Interestingly, Abraham was made righteous for his faith in The Gospel (Gal 3:8) of Jesus Christ (Gal 3:16) while he was an uncircumcised Gentile. Paul makes an important distinction in Romans 4:10 that God made him righteous for his faith PRIOR to being circumcised in his flesh.

    Romans 9:4
    who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
    5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
    6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
    7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
    8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...