1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Whom Did the Israelites Worship in the Golden Calf Incident?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Jul 17, 2021.

?
  1. Yahweh

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  2. One or more false gods

    9 vote(s)
    69.2%
  3. Yahweh and one or more false gods

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,320
    Likes Received:
    545
    Faith:
    Baptist
    not at all. Aaron SAID it was to the Lord, while he, & mose likely the rest of Israel, knew it wasn't. Moses knew it wasn't; in fact, God told him to get off the mountain, for the people had corrupted themselves.
     
  2. Scripture More Accurately

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is only a statement of what Aaron had in mind; it does not tell us anything about what the people had in their minds when they actually worshiped on the next day. I do not believe that Aaron participated in any of their worship or other activities on that next day.

    Ps. 106:21, which you seem to be ignoring, explicitly says that the people forgot the true God who was their Savior, which proves that they were not thinking of Yahweh in their worship. People who have forgotten someone are by definition not thinking of that person.
     
    #62 Scripture More Accurately, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are projecting.
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Was Aaron the priest? In this area you are speculating.
     
  5. Scripture More Accurately

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, he was the high priest. Nevertheless, regardless of what Aaron said in Exod. 32:5, you are still refusing to deal with Psalm 106:21, which decisively shows that the minds of the people were not on Yahweh in what they did.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No one is arguing the people weren't the worshipping of the other gods. The question is whether Aaron said the people would be worshipping YHWH when the calf was created. God says they were worshipping other gods. The lesson we learn from this is that pastors today can (and do) act like Aaron when they create messages and worship not sanctioned by God because society demands it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,320
    Likes Received:
    545
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nupe-You're imagining.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,320
    Likes Received:
    545
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree. had Aaron participated, God would've almost-certainly rejected him as High Priest.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does Exodus 32:5 say YHWH or not?
    Sir, there is no imagination needed to observe what is written.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,320
    Likes Received:
    545
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, were the Israelis worshippong Yahweh while the calf was there? If so, why did He tell Moses the people had corrupted themselves?
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My goodness, read the passage. I have gone over this already.
    God saw their worship as corrupt. It is similar to "progressive churches" today.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,919
    Likes Received:
    1,745
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The worship of God in any way that He Himself has not authorized is utterly unacceptable to Him (Leviticus 10:1-2; 1 Chronicles 13:7-10; Acts of the Apostles 17:24-25, 29).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes Received:
    861
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you! Aaron's sons learned that lesson the hard way. Just because Aaron told the people that the calf represented YHWH, it in no way meant he was correct. Indeed, we see that God hated what Aaron and the people did.
     
  14. Scripture More Accurately

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,919
    Likes Received:
    1,745
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1 Corinthians 10:7. 'And do not become idolators as were some of them [the Israelites]. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."'
    What exactly is the specific and vital command to NT Christians that you are seeing here? You might like to reference Ephesians 5:5 in your answer.
     
  16. Scripture More Accurately

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The text plainly states that the command is to not become idolaters. That command against idolatry, however, is not left unspecified.

    Instead of citing their making of the idol, worshiping it, and sacrificing to it, as God speaks of in Exod. 32:8 as their having done in their having corrupted themselves and having turned aside from the way that He had commanded, the Spirit cites not the first part of Exodus 32:6 but the latter two parts, which I have bolded below:

    Exodus 32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

    Because the Spirit explicitly directs the attention of Christians to their idolatrous eating and drinking and their idolatrous playing in the GCI, those are the aspects of their idolatry that the Spirit directly highlights that Christians must not do, as they did.
     
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,919
    Likes Received:
    1,745
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you. I am not in disagreement with any of that.
    My point is that these Israelites may well have been telling themselves that they were worshipping Yahweh, just having a lot more fun doing it than they did when that Moses fellow was about.
    'Prosperity Gospel' preachers claim to be preaching and worshipping Christ and are deceiving thousands, yet Ephesians 5:5 tells than that they are committing idolatry, supposing that godliness is a means of gain (1 Timothy 6:5).
    You yourself seem to be saying (correctly :)) that idolatry is not just about worshipping physical idols.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    8,006
    Likes Received:
    824
    The people n the ancient near East generally believed in “regional gods”, that is gods that were powerful in specific areas (usually associated with mountains).

    So they believe certain gods controlled Egypt and other gods controlled Canaan and so forth. It was not unusual to worship whatever “god” was popular in a particular area.

    Aaron clearly attempted to bring their focus of worship upon YHWH, even though he greatly sinned/errored in making the calf to represent the one true God.

    The people probably sought to worship several “gods”, depending which they believed would give them the most benefit and some were focused on YHWH if not singularly, then as part of many to worship.

    It is probably wrong to think the Hebrew people were of one mind in attempting to determine who they intended to worship during this event.

    Peace to you
     
  19. Scripture More Accurately

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you accept what Psalm 106 reveals, what you are saying here is impossible because we are told explicitly that they forgot the true God who was their Savior:

    Psalm 106:19 They made a calf in Horeb, and worshipped the molten image. 20 Thus they changed their glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass. 21 They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;

    Those who had forgotten someone were by definition of the verb "to forget" neither thinking of that One whom they had forgotten nor telling themselves that they were worshiping the One whom they had forgotten.
     
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,919
    Likes Received:
    1,745
    Faith:
    Baptist
    By the view you adopt, It seems to me that you miss the great lesson of the whole episode; that you can only worship God in the manner that He Himself has laid down. Here's Spurgeon on Psalm 106:
    20. 'They said that they meant to worship the true God under a fitting and suggestive similitude by which His great power would be set forth to the multitude; they pleaded the great Catholic revival which followed upon this return to a more ornate ceremonial, for the people thronged around Aaron, and danced before the calf with all their might. But in the very deed they had given up the true God...........
    21. Remembering the calf involved forgetting God. He had commanded them to make no image, and in daring to disobey, they forgot His commands. Moreover, it is clear that they must have altogether forgotten the nature and character of Jehovah, or they could never have likened Him to a grass-eating animal. Some men hope to keep their sins and their God too.........'

    ['Treasury of David']

    I think we've probably reached an impasse here. Thanks for an interesting discussion.:Thumbsup
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...