Featured Why do non cals say cals teach regeneration before faith?

...only if you falsely attribute it to the same characteristics as physical life and death, which spiritual is not to be done.

The Bible says you are dead to sin. Do you sin?

The Bible says that life is IN Christ. Did you have life apart from Him?

 

So, someone can be spiritually alive for years, and still not be saved/in Christ?

 

double post

 

Then how do you explain the rich man who died and went to hell?

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

This rich man is spiritually dead, yet he could lift up his eyes and see, he cried to Abraham, he felt torment and thirst, he could hear Abraham and hold a conversation with him, he could remember, he worried about his brothers, and he prayed. Pretty active for a dead guy, wouldn't you say?

 

True. And the Life-giving Word of God always precedes life (i.e. the gospel). If someone chooses to trade the truth of that gospel in for lies and remain in their lost condition that is their own fault, they have no excuse (i.e. "God didn't grant me faith, etc").

 

Act 17:28, For in him we, first, live, and then move and then have our being. We must be born again of the Spirit before we can have any kind of spiritual actions. Spiritual life preceeds spiritual actions. As you have stated, before we were quickened we were dead in sins. The dead in sins person can not do a spiritual action.

 

Your answer does not make any sense in relation to my post! Please explain. I in no way said that a spiritual person is not saved eternally.

 

I failed to see not one reference to a scripture in your remarks. John 10:27, My sheep hear my voice. His sheep already have life or they wouldn't be his sheep.

 

So, are you suggesting that the gospel is not "the Life-giving Word of God" which "always precedes life?" Read John 20:31:
"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

As to the rest of the quote: "If someone chooses to trade the truth of that gospel in for lies and remain in their lost condition that is their own fault, they have no excuse (i.e. "God didn't grant me faith, etc")." Read Romans 1.

 

Notice the bolded. All life is IN HIM.

You say a person dead in sins cannot do a "spiritual action". Can a person dead TO sin commit a sin?

 

No, you said life precedes being "in Him", which is blatantly anti-Scripture.

 

I am amazed at the way that you misquote my remarks! I did not say that life preceeds being in him. I said, IN HIM, we live, and move and have our being. We are "in him" before we live. Eph 2:5, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ. Please quote me right in the future.

 

We are "in Him" prior to being "in Him"?

We have been quickened / regenerated WITH Christ, not prior to faith in Him. Fact.

 

You are going to have to explain what you think Eph 2:5 means, before I can have the slightest glue of what you are trying to say. I can't possiably see how you say that I said "we are, in him, prior to being, in him.

 

Forest, I think we over complicate things:

The gospel was preached and recorded for all mankind so that they may believe it and by believing be brought to life. The truth shall set you free.

Read John 20:31:
"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

It wouldn't make any sense to teach that one must be brought to life prior to receiving a message meant to bring them to life. Likewise, it is backward to suggest that one must be set free before receiving the truth which is sent to set men free. I believe you have the cart before the horse.

 

Amen....:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Well, didn't you say that we must be quickened(made alive) to understand/hear the gospel. By hearing the Gospel, then we are then saved? Is this what you believe?

How can we be alive, and then later, placed in Christ? Faith is what places us in Him.

 

We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness, Eph2:2-3. The natural man cannot hear the gospel preached and descern what is being spiritually taught, 1 Cor 2:14. There is "eternal life" and there also is an abundant life that we can live here in this world after we have been quickened to a spiritual life and walk in the Spirit. Luke 12:15, Life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which we posses, verse 31, But rather seek ye the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you. In John 20:31, if the regenerated man will hear the gospel and believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, he can have this abundant life here in this world. Jesus is the bread of life that we feed upon in this abundant life for those that walk in the Spirit. Rom 6:4, Even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom 8:4, That the righeousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:6, For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Gal 2:21, And the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God, 1 Tim 2:2, That we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all goodliness and honesty. 1 Tim 4:8, But godliness is profitable unto all things, having the promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 1 Pet 3:10, For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil. 2 Pet 1:3-4, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exeeding great and precious promises, that by these ye may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

Let me see if I can give you a step by step explaination. 1. God's elect were given eternal salvation by Christ's work on the cross, John 6:37-41. 2. Those that God choose before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, He gave to his Son who died for their sins and when they are born into this world as natural beings, and are already eternally saved, God quickens them together with Christ and puts His Spirit within them. In this state of regeneration when they hear the gospel preached, and believe, they receive, not eternal life because they already posses that by Christ's work, but do receive that abundant life while they live here in this world. Believing the gospel is not the cause of our eternal salvation, but we can receive an abundant life here in this world by believing the gospel. The gospel is the good news that God feeds to his children by the preaching of the word.

 

That is not what 1 Cor. 2:14 says. It says that the natural man cannot understand the deep mysteries of the Spirit unless the Spirit chooses to make those mysteries clear. The Spirit does make the gospel clear to all people by inspiring writers, like Paul, who is writing under inspiration of the Spirit. Paul is speaking to Carnal Christians about their inability to accept the meat (deep things of God). He is not talking about the lost's inability to understand the clear message of the gospel.

If the lost can't even understand the gospel then you have just given them the perfect excuse for not believing it. Why give them that excuse? It's like when my kid says, "I didn't understand what you asked me to do." But I know he understood me perfectly. You are saying they REALLY don't understand what God is saying and that is unbiblical. I say they clearly see and understand it perfectly but they chose to trade the truth in for a lie and for that reason they stand 'without excuse.' The lost are defying a God who is gracious and loving, not one who hates them and has rejected them. You have too high a view of mankind. Don't let them off so easy. Unbelievers have NO excuse for their unbelief and suggesting they can't understand the gospel is too good of an excuse for them.