Why does it seem that IFB are disliked by other Baptist groups

[ddavis]

Is it because the IFB don't waver from the truth of Bible Doctrine and Teaching or is it becasue of their firm stand on the KJV? Or it is because of their unwillingness to join in with other groups?
Much of what I read on this board seems to be becasue of our stand on the KJV (call me what you will, KJVO or one that chooses to stay away from other Bibles). Not to start what has already been gone over again, but the material on the history of the english Bible tells me it came from the Hebrew O.T.,Greek Septuagint 2nd-3rd century and the Greek N.T 1st-2nd century then to the Received Text (Erasmus 1516) to the KJV 1611.
I do think that most Baptist beleive in the same thing as far as salvation and have for many years until the newer versions came about, it that right or wrong? So why is the hatered there for the IFB?

 

[Pastor Larry]

KJVOnlyism is not synonymous with IFB. In fact, IFB's have been greatly harmed by the unbiblical teaching of the KJVOnly movement. Historically, versions were never an issue and they should not be today.

 

[myreflection26]

First of all I don't hate anyone. I may strongly disagree with someone else but to hate is something way stronger than I'm willing to stick my neck out for. I do get sick of IFB unwillingness to share with other christians in love and worship and other things non church related because IFB think they are the only ones on earth who are correct. I believe there are flaws in any type of man and his interpretations be it IFB or any baptist or any denomination. Fact is, anyone who's sins are covered by the blood of Jesus and has confessed Jesus is Lord of all should have no problem with another person despite doctrinal differences.

Sue

 

[EPH 1:4]

I am an IFB...I am in a position where I can't leave...looonnnggg story. I have made many friends, and love many of the IFB's. Two years ago the LORD opened my eyes to the doctrines of grace. I believe alot like the Primitive Baptist. The IFBer's teach a WORK salvation..."God has done His part, now the rest is up to you." Also " knock on doors and "lead" someone to the Lord." Don't do it and your not right with God. Most messages are a "do and don't" messages, good moral lessons but not much bible. I pray the LORD will open many IFBer's eyes.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I am historic ifb. We have always been a "separate" group. We do not compromise or tolerate error - ecclesiastically or ethically. We seem to be "aloof" and act "judgmental" on others. Why?

Because we cannot cooperate with those who do not preach and hold to the truth of the Gospel. (Catholic, Anglican, and most liturgical christian denominations)

Because we cannot cooperate (offically) with those who ARE saved but are wrapped up with these unbelievers in activities and organizations. (World Council of Chruches, Billy Graham, City Ministerial Association)

Because we cannot tolerate even other Baptists who walk disruptively and do not hold fast the truth. (New Evangelicals, many para-church organizations, many mission boards).

Ifb'ers stand militantly and loudly against error (as we perceive it) and for the Truth! So when new pseudo "fundamentals" were added and preachers and leaders from large churches proclaimed them to be "truth" many ifb'ers were sucked into that teaching.

These new pseudo-fundamentals that have NEVER been fundamentals of the faith have divided ifb. Probably 75% still hold the old-fashioned way and will go about unchanged.

A vocal 25%, with their added cultural baggage of "standards" and a new worship of an archaic English translation, have sullied our fine name. We are diligently trying to separate our movement from them. Thankfully some of the most vocal spokesmen are passing from the scene and common sense may someday prevail.

So do historic ifb'ers feel "superior" to other Baptists? You bet. We're right and they aren't! The SBC is divided against itself. The ABC is dead. The CBA is new evangelical at best. Missionary Baptists and Free Will Baptists don't have a clue about real theology. And Regular Baptists are probably not very regular!!!

I am PROUD to be an historic ifb'er. Figure in heaven we ALL will be!

 

[p]

Oh Dr. Bob, please forgive me, but I remembered this joke, and finally found it, and have placed it here for posterity.

Now this joke has, I think, some ficticious baptist organization names, ok?

-----------------------------------------
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or buddhist?"

He said,"Christian."

I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist Church of God!"

I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"

He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of God!"

I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"

I said, "Die, heretic!", and pushed him off.

 

[ddavis]

Thank you Dr. Bob Griffin for telling why we “separate” from others even if they are “Baptist” who have strayed from the truth of the Scriptures.


Quote by Eph 1:4
The IFBer's teach a WORK salvation..."God has done His part, now the rest is up to you." Also " knock on doors and "lead" someone to the Lord." Don't do it and your not right with God. Most messages are a "do and don't" messages, good moral lessons but not much bible. I pray the LORD will open many IFBer's eyes. Quote

They IFBer’s I know DON”T TEACH A WORK SALVATION. Our works are a manifestation of our salvation, we teach it is what Christ has done on the cross of Calvary.(Ehp 2:8-9) I think Matt. 28:18,19,20 tell us as Christians we have a duty to knock doors and see souls saved (that’s all Believers, not just some) if the phone rings you should answer it. Also most of Paul’s writing I think were “DO’S and DON’T” he was telling the early church what they were doing wrong and right. I do agree that most “Baptist Churches” are lacking in disciplining young believers in the Lord. That is why the cults boast in get more Baptist converts than any other, that is why it is the persons duty who is being working with that young believer to disciple new believers along with the church. Oh yes these days we need don’t you think we need “good moral Bible teaching?


Quote by Myreflection26
Fact is, anyone who's sins are covered by the blood of Jesus and has confessed Jesus is Lord of all should have no problem with another person despite doctrinal differences. Quote

Don’t you think that is why there are so many different churches today because of “doctrinal differences”? Why did Paul speak of being “swept away with winds of doctrine”. If doctrinal differences don’t matter then why do you attend to the church you are going to now, you should go to a new church each service. (Amos 3:3) I’m not a Baptist Brider, but I do think the Lord will try to guide those believers out to a Bible Believing Baptist Church.


Quote by Pastor Larry
KJVOnlyism is not synonymous with IFB. In fact, IFB's have been greatly harmed by the unbiblical teaching of the KJVOnly movement. Historically, versions were never an issue and they should not be today. Quote

I’m sorry Pastor Larry but I don’t think it is the IFBer’s that have put this issue on the burner, it just seems to me that we are being put on the burner because we don’t wont to use other bibles because of the standards we believe the Scripture has set for us to follow.

 

[toolman]

The problem is that people want a easy religion, I AM NOT RELIGIOUS!!!! I am a CHRISTIAN!!!! The IFB's have always separated from the main stream religions. We hold to the truth of (God's Word) KJV!
WE ARE NOT PROSTESTANT, WE ARE SEPARATISTS, and proud of it. Just As America is fighting to keep our FREEDOM; IFB’s are trying to fight the attacks of the one world church. The one world church is destroying all that IFB's have stood for. Again I am sick of being called a Protestant, Baptists never protested during the Reformation, we Separated from all the corruption and stayed to what we have held to since the beginning. I am a separatist and would be ashamed to be anything else. IFB's are not the only that will reach heaven, that depends on whether or not you accept Christ, but God gave us guidelines, and there is corruption in the one world church. I will stick to the Truth holders. Not the Emotion holders. I see how liberality has hurt our country, liberality is also hurting our churches.

 

[EPH 1:4]

ddavis: the IFB's that I"M talking about (Hyles, Rice, Hutson, Gray-Longview, Hatch, and many more) believe that you have to help God to save souls, "if we don't help God, everyone will die and go to hell." BTW, a dead sinner CANNOT and WILL NOT come to Christ. Why? because he is dead, not sick, DEAD. Matt 1:21..b) for He SHALL save HIS people from their sins. Not you, me , the IFB's, but He shall save His people from their sins. We don't help Him.

 

[toolman]

Sounds like you are a Calvinist?????

 

[Pastor Larry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I’m sorry Pastor Larry but I don’t think it is the IFBer’s that have put this issue on the burner, it just seems to me that we are being put on the burner because we don’t wont to use other bibles because of the standards we believe the Scripture has set for us to follow.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who is "we"? I am an IFB without apology and I do want to, and do, use another version. (I do reject using other Bibles however.) Scripture has set no standard on which version to use. That is a matter of preference. It is a certain segment of IFB, or perhaps as Dr. Bob (I believe) characterized them as pseudo IFB who have erected the KJV Only position as a tenet of faith. It is not now, nor has it ever been, a tenet of biblical orthodoxy. It is man made.

It has nothing to do with having standards and following them and preaching holiness. Many of us who use another version of Scripture do preach standards and holiness and separation. THe issue here has to do with biblical doctrine and being true to what Scripture says about itself.

 

[ddavis]

Pastor Larry , I didn't leave any IFB out when I made my statement, I said "We" meaning all IFB. That is your right to use what ever version you choose, but I'm saying it is also my.

 

[Pastor Larry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddavis:
Pastor Larry , I didn't leave any IFB out when I made my statement, I said "We" meaning all IFB. That is your right to use what ever version you choose, but I'm saying it is also my.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is also your what???

IFB's do not only use the KJV. "We" meaning all IFB's are not persecuted because we use the KJV. I am not persecuted for using the KJV (because I don't use it). YOu made a false statement trying to connect two things are coincidental, not causal.

 

[toolman]

In my opioion the KJV vs other versions is not a matter of choice, it is a matter of truth.

Fundamental: of or forming a foundation or basis; basic; essential. a principle, theory, law etc. serving as a basis.

The basis of the Independent Fundamental Baptist's is the KJV. If we do not believe in the Word of God then we have nothing to stand for. The IFB's have always used the KJV. You may be an Independent Baptist, but I question on the Fundamental part. I can't believe that anyone would question the authority of the Word of God. Maybe this version Maybe that version????????? No thank you I stand on the Fundamental truth. I call myself Fundamental proudly and carefully.

 

[Eladar]

So you are defining a fundamentalist as someone who believes something just because his grandpappy believed it?

 

[myreflection26]

You can think you have all the truth in the world with I'm rights and they are wrongs but fact is...you ain't nothing without love.

dd....I said we should get along and have no problems with each other, I never said we should all attend church together..big difference there..your comment had nothing to do with my statement.

Sue

 

[toolman]

No, Webster defined it.

I don't understand your statement????

Both my grandpappy's used the NIV, One was a Southern Baptist and the didn't go to church. So I did not follow in their footsteps!

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: toolman ]

 

[ddavis]

Quote by Eph 1:4
ddavis: the IFB's that I"M talking about (Hyles, Rice, Hutson, Gray-Longview, Hatch, and many more) believe that you have to help God to save souls, "if we don't help God, everyone will die and go to hell." BTW, a dead sinner CANNOT and WILL NOT come to Christ. Why? because he is dead, not sick, DEAD. Matt 1:21..b) for He SHALL save HIS people from their sins. Not you, me , the IFB's, but He shall save His people from their sins. We don't help Him. Quote


Then why do we have Preachers? What are they here for? What do you do with Matt. 28:18,19,20? Why would Scripture say “they are saved by the foolishness of preaching” “How shall they hear without a preacher” and why would Timothy and Titus give the qualifications of a Pastor? I believe we are the vessel the Lord uses to lead them to Him and He does the quickening of the spiritual dead. (also in Eph.)

Quote by Pastor Larry
It is also your what???
IFB's do not only use the KJV. "We" meaning all IFB's are not persecuted because we use the KJV. I am not persecuted for using the KJV (because I don't use it). YOu made a false statement trying to connect two things are coincidental, not causal. Quote
Pastor Larry, the IFB that “I know” NM, TX, CO use the KJV and that is my right also, as the Toolman has stated. I don’t think the IFB are being persecuted, nor did I say that, but it seems that the KJV issue is one of the reasons for the dislike of IFB people on this board. I guess I missed which statement was false, I think KJV issue dislike go hand in hand.

Quote by Myreflection26
dd....I said we should get along and have no problems with each other, I never said we should all attend church together..big difference there..your comment had nothing to do with my statement.Quote

Sure it does, it is those doctrinal differences that you mentioned that separate in and out of church. We will not all get along in love until the Prince of Peace sets up His kingdom.

 

[Eladar]

The NIV didn't come into existance until 1973.

The NAS didn't come into existance until 1960.

Therefore any group who's foundation goes back before these dates couldn't be based on these versions. The Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew Manuscripts are what we base our faith on, not a particular English translation. By your definition, anyone who bases his beliefs on the KJV isn't even a fundamentalist. This version didn't exist during all of the history Christiandom. The versions that predate the KJV are the ones that are truely fundatmental.

Besides, the original KJV isn't even understandable to those of us who speak modern english. The KJV you read today isn't the exact same KJV that was originally translated.

Older isn't better, it's just older.

 

[ddavis]

Pastor Larry do you think that Tuor proves my point about the KJV, then follows dislike? Why do IFB have to defend the KJV, we don't it will defend itself.
what about the other questions on page #1