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Featured Why don't Baptists believe Acts 2:38 literally?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Wittenberger, Jul 23, 2012.

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  1. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    #81 Wittenberger, Jul 30, 2012
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #82 DHK, Jul 30, 2012
  3. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    #83 Wittenberger, Jul 30, 2012
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #84 DHK, Jul 30, 2012
  5. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    #85 Moriah, Jul 30, 2012
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    And I agree with DHK. I also recommend [SIZE=-0]Baptism: Studies in the Original Christian Baptism, its History and Conflicts, its Relation to a State or National Church and its Significance for the Present Time[/SIZE] by Johannes Warns. I bought mine back in college. I found volumes for sale at:

    http://used.addall.com/Used/

    with "Johannes Warns" in the Author field and "Baptism" in the Title field.

    Herr Dr. Professor Warns also wrote the basic NT Greek grammar. AFAIK, it's the German equivalent of Machen or Dana and Mantey.

    Remember folks, since the mid 1600s, forests of trees and tons of rags have given themselves to the books written on either side of this question. So, the question will not be resolved here to either side's satisfaction.

     
    #86 Squire Robertsson, Jul 30, 2012
  7. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    #87 Michael Wrenn, Jul 30, 2012
  8. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Since you are the Administrator, and so hard to have correspondence with, would you please have DHK correct the falseness he said about me in this thread:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1882330#post1882330

    I did not ever say God does not know everyone's heart.

    DHK made that false statement even though I corrected him. He then made the false statement again then closed the thread.
     
    #88 Moriah, Jul 30, 2012
  9. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    #89 Wittenberger, Jul 30, 2012
  10. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I'm sorry but you have attributed that quote to the wrong person. It was Adam who said that. :laugh::laugh:

    (sorry, couldn't resist) :)
     
    #90 Amy.G, Jul 30, 2012
  11. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    #91 Wittenberger, Jul 30, 2012
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #92 DHK, Jul 30, 2012
  13. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I have not read all the posts, so please forgive if this duplicates other posts.

    Acts 8:36-38
    Here is a clear progression. The eunuch says, here's water, why can't I be baptized.

    Philip says, if you believe, okay.
    The eunuch says I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God
    Philip says, good answer, and baptized him.

    First an espression of faith in Jesus; next, baptism.

    Now, go find Acts 16:31 where Paul says believe and be saved.

    Then look at v 33 Then, Paul baptized them all.
     
    #93 Tom Butler, Jul 30, 2012
  14. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    #94 Wittenberger, Jul 30, 2012
  15. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    A pledge to God is a serious matter.
    Some here do not give it the importance that it is.
     
    #95 Moriah, Jul 30, 2012
  16. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    Excellent! A new Baptist/evangelical joining the discussion.

    Maybe you know the answer to this:

    Is there any historical record that shows that the early Christians in the first centuries after Christ believed that baptism was ONLY one of the following:

    1. a public profession of faith
    2. a beautiful , symbolic display that has no other purpose than to be a fulfillment of a God-given command.
     
    #96 Wittenberger, Jul 30, 2012
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Nowhere does it say baptism is a pledge.
    It is purely symbolic.
     
    #97 DHK, Jul 30, 2012
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #98 DHK, Jul 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2012
  19. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    As for you saying water baptism is not a pledge, it is a pledge, a promise, or if you would like the ESV translation, water baptism is an appeal to God for a good conscience. No matter what translation you use, it is what it is, it is a pledge to God.

    New International Version (©1984)
    and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    I could not care less what you think about the NIV.

    English Standard Version(©2001)
    Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    Water baptism is something the believer does; water baptism is more dependent upon the believer than the baptizer, as evident is in the fact that John the Baptist baptized Jesus.

    Again, water baptism is something centered on the believer.

    You only say what some denominations say about water baptism, that it is symbolic, but you can only repeat what you have been told by other men, not considering what the symbol means. You do not seem to be able to explain any further.

    Go ahead and try to explain more what the symbol means. Try to explain it without saying it is a vow, a pledge, a promise, a commitment to God that you are dying with Jesus.

    Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Our old nature is to die and we are to be “buried with Him through baptism into death.” We are buried with the water, and raised out of the water, raised to “walk in newness of life” (live like Jesus).

    Picture how baptism looks…the believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.

    Romans explain this perfectly.

    Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
     
    #99 Moriah, Jul 30, 2012
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    To me, it's simple.

    It's inconsistent with the rest of the Bible. If you believe it, even John 3:16 would have no meaning. Grace would not be needed.

    To base salvation on only one verse and one act just won't hold water. Excuse the pun.
     
    #100 carpro, Jul 30, 2012
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