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Why I am not a Calvinist....

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    How do you feel Acts 13:48 is being used out of context?
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What is warped about trying to be biblical? But truly this Calvinists vs Arminian is just foolishness. When I listen to Rogers I frankly was disheartened... he painted a picture of God but ignored certain scripture that would have caused his synario to have collapse... but all the while I was thinking that here is a man who surely knows scripture... he will get around to it, he will explain it to us, but no he never did. He was content to have them bask in his enterpitation without mention of anything that could contend. Frankly I found that disheartening.
     
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  3. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    The Reformed/Calvinistic view, is that it teaches "Predestination" of individuals to eternal life.

    The context and Greek grammar is clearly against this.

    Firstly, the Greek word rendered "ordained", is the verb, "τάσσω", which has nothing to do with any "preordaining" or "predetermined", or "pre" anything. It simply means, "appoint, form, array, marshal", with nothing "before" in the verb.

    Secondly, for those who know some Greek grammar, like some on here, they should know, that Greek verbs that are passive and middle in "voice" (action), are not always easy to determine, as contextual usage is looked at to see what is meant. In verse 46 it is very clear, that the Jews heard the Gospel, and "they considered themselves (self action, middle voice) unworthy of eternal life", not something that God has predetermined through "election". Then Paul takes this same Message to the Gentiles, who were told "were pleased" to hear, and therefore "marshaled themselves", by their accepting this message, with the Lord. Where again the "middle voice" is understood. I was challenged by someone here on this, and produced some Greek scholars who have shown what I say to be correct!

    Ones personal theology should have noting to do with our determining of any passage of Scripture.
     
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  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    No... that’s pure deception on the part of the evil one in order to separate
     
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  5. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    For anyone who believes in the predestination of the elect to salvation, would have to also believe in the predestination of the non-elect to damnation. This is what Augustine taught, because he saw that you cannot have the one without the other.
     
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  6. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    I agree with you on that.
     
  7. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    I do agree with τάσσω meaning appointed. So would you say “all who had been appointed to eternal life believed” is an accurate translation of that verse?
     
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  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I don’t even profess to agree with his logic. If God has graced me with his love then that love will carry me forth in spite of myself... see since he first love me that grace he gave me has turned the lights on... I see him for what he is and love him and that is why he is my Lord and Savior. There is a reason why the other guy doesn’t see it known only to God and I am content with that. After all He is God, he is the creator, He is Sovereign.
     
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  9. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with appointed. The issue here is who does the appointing, and does the word ever have the meaning "pre"? The context, verses 46 and 48 taken together, where the rejection of the Gospel by the Jews, was a "self act"; corresponding to this, is the action of the Gentiles, which also must be a "self act", by their accepting.
     
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  10. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    You saying that God created the greater majority of His own creation, to be damned forever? Then on what basis does He save any? Bear in mind that the nation of Israel were also "elect", and yet they were cast aside because of their unbelief, as Hebrews and Romans tell us. Paul's reasoning in both places shows that also the Gentiles can be thrust out if they follow the example of Israel.
     
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  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I’m not saying at all... I’m saying he is sovereign and I can’t fathom His ways and I don’t even try anymore. Sure I plum for answers through the Bible but I’m human... I can’t completely understand His mind.
     
    #151 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    May I say further my trust is put in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit so I’m humbled that He has given me the Grace that leads me into belief...one that is humbled
     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There is a different dynamic on a message board than a local assembly.
    Message boards attract cage stage persons as there is no shortage of protagonists .
    No one is quite accountable to others as in a local assembly where private face to face interaction can happen.
     
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    According to Revelation 7:9, there is 'a great multitude which no one could number.......standing before the throne and before the Lamb.' May I ask
    1. Why are you presuming to number them when the text says no one can number them?
    2. How the number gets either bigger or smaller whether Calvinism or Arminianism is true?
    'What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy' (Romans 9:14-16
    'For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God and they shall be My people......for all shall know Me from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I shall be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more' (Hebrews 8:10-12). God's New Covenant people have His law written on their hearts.
     
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  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    True
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Member
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    I am in my mid-50's and never married. I met a girl at work who I thought was right for me. Come to find out she is Baptist... Well, not that big of problem! But... The more that woman talked! Come to find out she sees nothing wrong with mixing the party and sex life with Christianity. On confronting her over this she looks at me and says....

    "Are you trying to threaten my salvation?"

    Apparently she knows enough about OSAS doctrine to think that she is eternally secure and immune from any kind of punishment.

    John Calvin... I wish the Catholics would have done him in while he was in France!
     
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  17. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    you forgot Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up ALL unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon ALL."
     
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  18. rockytopva

    rockytopva Member
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    I was brought up Baptist and into a very large youth group, in which everyone thought were saved. Come to find out they were a very party hardy bunch! One day they invited a young lady named Theresa to one of their parties. Theresa, who had no family in the church, was shocked to find them partying and smoking dope. Theresa told the leadership on them. They then fired a good pastor and that church has not done well since.

    My opinion on OSAS is that it gives people a false sense of security. The bible says over and over again that this is a race to be run, and that he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
     
  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Ultimately, I think not. There are some texts which are apparently simple, such as John 3:16, but how well do we understand that verse if we don't understand the Fall? How well do we understand it if we do not understand Federal Headship or the Law?
     
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed' (NKJV).
    The Greek word tetagmenoi is the Perfect Passive Participle of tasso. Perfect because it refers to a once-for-all event; passive because the appointing happened to these Gentiles. It is ridiculous to suppose that anyone can appoint himself once-for-all to eternal life. 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb' (Revelation 7:10).

    'The violent attempts which have been made to eliminate the doctrine of election or predestination from this verse, by rendering the last verb, disposed, arrayed etc., or by violent constructions, such as that of Socinius (as many as believed were ordained to eternal life!) can never change the simple fact that wherever this verb occurs elsewhere, it invariably expresses the exertion of power or authority, divine or human, and being in the passive voice, cannot denote mere disposition, much less self-determination...' [J.A. Alexander: The Acts of the Apostles]
    Amen!
     
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  21. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Is she a Calvinist? Not likely. She sounds like the product of Pelagian/Semi-Pelagian-decisional-walk-the-aisle "Christianity.
     
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