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Why I am not a Calvinist....

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This is odd. This board has repeatedly been plagued by cage stage Calvinists who slash and burn a swath through fellow Christians who disagree with them and refuse to show them Christian compassion and who extend their wrath beyond soteriology to every minute detail of doctrine and, indeed, practice.
     
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  2. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Charles Ellicott, Greek Scholar

    "The quasi-middle force of the passive form of the verb is seen in the Greek of Act_20:13, where a compound form of it is rightly rendered “for so he had appointed,” and might have been translated for so he was disposed. It lies in the nature of the case that belief was followed by a public profession of faith, but the word “believed” does not, as some have said, involve such a profession."

    Cambridge Greek Testament

    "καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον, and as many as were ordained unto eternal life believed. In the controversies on predestination and election this sentence has constantly been brought forward. But it is manifestly unfair to take a sentence out of its context, and interpret it as if it stood alone. In Act_13:46 we are told that the Jews had adjudged themselves unworthy of eternal life, and all that is meant by the words in this verse is the opposite of that expression. The Jews were acting so as to proclaim themselves unworthy; the Gentiles were making manifest their desire to be deemed worthy. The two sections were like opposing troops, ranged (τεταγμένοι = marshalled) by themselves, and to some degree, though not unalterably, looked upon as so arranged by God on different sides. Thus the Gentiles were ordering themselves, and were ordered unto eternal life. The text says no word to warrant us in thinking that none could henceforth change sides."

    Henry Alford, Greek Scholar

    "τεταγμένοι] The meaning of this word must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, believed. By whom so disposed, is not here declared: nor need the word be in this place further particularized. We know, that it is GOD who worketh in us the will to believe, and that the preparation of the heart is of Him: but to find in this text pre-ordination to life asserted, is to force both the word and the context to a meaning which they do not contain."

    Expositors Greek Testament

    "Act_13:48. ἐδόξ. τὸν λ. τοῦ Κ.: δοξ. τὸν Θ.; frequent in Luke and Paul, cf. 2Th_3:1 for the nearest approach to the exact phrase here.—ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγ.: there is no countenance here for the absolutum decretum of the Calvinists, since Act_13:46 had already shown that the Jews had acted through their own choice. The words are really nothing more than a corollary of St. Paul’s ἀναγκαῖον: the Jews as a nation had been ordained to eternal life—they had rejected this election—but those who believed amongst the Gentiles were equally ordained by God to eternal life, and it was in accordance with His divine appointment that the Apostles had turned to them. Some take the word as if middle, not passive: “as many as had set themselves unto eternal life,” and in support of this Rendall refers to 1Co_16:15, ἔταξαν ἑαυτοὺς (see also Blass, in loco). The rendering here given by Rendall may be adopted without pressing the military metaphor in the verb, as has sometimes been done;"

    A T Robertson, Greek Scholar

    "As many as were ordained to eternal life (hosoi êsan tetagmenoi eis zôên aiônion). Periphrastic past perfect passive indicative of tassô, a military term to place in orderly arrangement. The word "ordain" is not the best translation here. "Appointed," as Hackett shows, is better. The Jews here had voluntarily rejected the word of God. On the other side were those Gentiles who gladly accepted what the Jews had rejected, not all the Gentiles. Why these Gentiles here ranged themselves on God's side as opposed to the Jews Luke does not tell us. This verse does not solve the vexed problem of divine sovereignty and human free agency. There is no evidence that Luke had in mind an absolutum decretum of personal salvation. Paul had shown that God's plan extended to and included Gentiles. Certainly the Spirit of God does move upon the human heart to which some respond, as here, while others push him away"

    ONLY those who are of the Calvinistic or Reformed theological position, would seriously use this passage to prove "election to salvation", when the CONTEXT, with the rejecting Jews, and accepting Gentiles clearly shows otherwise!
     
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  3. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    James White is a JOKE, and his arguments are equally a JOKE. Rogers has it 100% RIGHT!
     
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Your only response is a personal attack? Perhaps you would like to review the forum rules?

    Go to the bottom right corner and click on "Terms and Rules."
     
  5. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I don't have a term for people like that, but things gets confusing if we use the same term for people who hold to very different opinions.
     
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  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I would not refer to him as a clown either, but he is also no scholar. I would put he and Charles Stanley in the same category: men with a basic and simplistic understanding of God's Word.
     
  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I agree. A teacher has a huge responsibility to present God's Word to His sheep, but I don't think that we can attribute motives to either Rogers or his audience.

    Don't you think that they both could simply be ignorant or misinformed?
     
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  8. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    since when is telling the truth wrong?
     
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  9. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    No one could argue with you on that, but I also think our stomachs are generally too weak to allow for strong and passionate disapproval over doctrine. The Apostle Paul didn't mince his words. . .

    Martin Luther also had a way with words that would have gotten him banned from BB, which I think is ironic. Here's a fun website full of his insults aimed at his theological opponents: Lutheran Insulter

    A sample:

    [​IMG]

    In appearance and words you simulate modesty, but you are so swollen with haughtiness, arrogance, pride, malice, villainy, rashness, superciliousness, ignorance, and stupidity that there is nothing to surpass you.

    From Against Latomus, pg. 160 of Luther's Works, Vol. 32
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    And still mislead
     
  11. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Like Calvinism and Reformed theology do!
     
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  12. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    Doesn’t the whole system of Calvinism depend on every point??

    Those people are the hardest to have meaningful dialogue with.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I would not say ignorant or misinformed... how could a student of scripture ignore elements of it ... that’s misrepresentation of Gods word. Why do that?
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Clearly if you do not look at the entire word of God, you are misrepresenting. I should think that anyone presuming to teach should know this.
     
  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I might not use the term, "depends", but I see the five points as logically consistent, while I see so called "four point Calvinists" as being logically inconsistent. If Jesus died for a man that man is pardoned. That's not a difficult concept to grasp, I don't think.
     
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  16. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Thats exactly my point! Reformed and Calvinistic theology is more concerned with their own understanding of the Bible, than what it really does say. Like their dealing with certain passages in the Bible, which they misrepresent to promote their warped "theology"!
     
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  17. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    Is it possible to come to any accurate interpretation of a verse without looking at the whole tenor of Scripture??
     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You need to grow up.
     
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  19. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    To some, they are content in only dealing with verses, usually out of its contextual meaning (like Acts 13:48), so that they can further push their own "theology", regardless of whether it contradicts the teaching of the Holy Bible!
     
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  20. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    don't like the truth?
     
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