Will a Christian commit certain sins? PART TWO

[ituttut]

The original had run its course. But enlightenment had not.

Ed Sutton, J Jump, Brother Bob, Amy. G, His Blood Spoke My Name, and Larry Evans gave comment's after my post, in effect being cut-off also. I'm opening again in order to give what shows to be scriptural understanding in answering a post.

Others and I have been cut-off due to necessary restrictions, so this is a reopening of "Will a Christian commit certain sins?"

Originally Posted by Brother Bob (snipped)

ituttut says: Is it not by His Grace that He saves us? Do we agree He has the Power, so from what does He save us? He saves you from "sin unto death" of being a slave to Satan. We sinners that sin will not continue to follow that flickering candle of light. We turn back to Christ to light our way for He is the Light.

Brother Bob: I agree and if He is able to save us, He is able also to keep us.
You believe He was able by His Grace to forgive our sins and cast them into a sea, but do you believe by His Grace, He is also able to keep us or do you believe that we were not washed and sanctified.

ituttut:We agree on these points, but differ in our understanding of our salvation. Today we are in Christ Jesus spiritually having been "circumcised, and baptized without hands". We are now safe in the "Body Church", but not until we are raptured, dead or alive, will we be glorified, not knowing exactly sure what we will be, however we will be like him……..but not until then. We while living in these bodies will still be susceptible to the wiles of the Devil. We are capable of anything and must be vigilant to not believe we are now past being fooled by our adversary.

The below of HBSMN is that post not answered and the above needed for proper context.

His Blood Spoke My Name.

Ituttut: We are now safe in the "Body Church", but not until we are raptured

HBSMN: Huh????????????


We are now safe but not until we are raptured? That doesn't even make any sense.

Of course it doesn't make sense when you stop reading, losing the explanation. The complete thought was put forth - Quote "We are now safe in the "Body Church", but not until we are raptured, dead or alive, will we be glorified, not knowing exactly sure what we will be, however we will be like him……..but not until then. We while living in these bodies will still be susceptible to the wiles of the Devil. We are capable of anything and must be vigilant to not believe we are now past being fooled by our adversary." We are not safe from sin.

I know paragraphical understanding is difficult for some. The meaning is we, while in these bodies, are still subject to sinning, and can be servant to sin/s for a moment, or short time, but we are eternally saved for we do not live in sin. The Power of God is to salvation even while we live in this sinful world.

Is this man the only one in that assemby of unrest, disorder, and insubordination? Ask the question, why had they not taken any action to get rid of this cancer before it ate up this church? There had to be many in this church that actually condoned the actions, for they saw it not a sin in proportion to remove him from their presence. This is a bodily sin that can be seen by the world, and this church must reject this one that is humilating and giving cause for the world to doubt this is a Christian church.

We see "things not acceptable to a church" being done in various church's today, and even some Baptist churches. Women Pastors will tear a church, and denominations to shreds, just as will acceptance of the homosexual into our midst. Don't let them in, and if they are in...get rid of them. It just may be that "spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".

And as I said earlier, there is nowhere in Scripture to indicate that the man was saved before his affair with his step-mother. So how can he 'again turn to God' as you say? The Scripture certainly doesn't say he again turned to God.

Let's take another look at this with other scripture.

Paul says are we so "puffed up" not caring such a deed if done in our midst we would not mourn, meaning this would be acceptable to us as Christians? I do not stand, as Brother Bob believes with the thinking of this much troubled church as shown in the books of Corinthians. I would say with him and you (at least I would hope you would), in our "freedom and liberty in Christ Jesus", we cannot condone such action's of Christians overstepping the boundaries set in our "freedom". Should we not admit all Christians are not sensible, some not making sound judgments? Even today such things still continue, for all Christians are not prudent.

As we read this scripture we see this immoral one is continuing in Satan's way, so get rid of him and see how he holds up by himself as he continues in his sin. This man will live a wasted life away, and in remorse, from those(his godly family), but he will wish to return realizing his sin (that is forgivable), turning again to Christ Jesus.

I'm of the opinion you may not believe, or perhaps not understand Luke 15, which makes it impossible for you to believe a saved sinner is nothing more than a sinner. What reasoning do you give for not believing Luke 15? As long as we are in these bodies we remain in sin, and do fool ourselves if we believe should (God forbid) we ever sin, we will then be lost forever.

Please contrast Luke 15 with this one in Corinthians. I don't believe the Bible preaches other than there is but one Judas Iscariot, so let's not try to pin this rap on this guy that has strayed. In both they are all together, then in both one steps outside. God says the one that leaves is part of the family (God gave to Him), and He will go after Him, and He'll not lose any. Can you say God is not able to bring the sinner that needs to return to Him? Is our God completely helpless that one that He has saved won't behave? You and I, Brother Bob, and I'm sure most represented on this board are "those just persons, which need no repentance".

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

As we read this scripture we see this immoral one is continuing in Satan's way, so get rid of him and see how he holds up by himself as he continues in his sin.

Here I agree. The man was living in continued sin.

John, in his 1 Epistle states that the Child of God cannot sin. Many translate this as 'cannot continue in sin.' If this is the case, then this proves the man could not have been born of God... he was not a Christian... only among the Christians.

 

[Brother Bob]

The world would be "shocked" to hear Christians say they are capable of adultery, molesting children, stealing, killing etc.
If that were the message being preached when I was in the world, then I would of just stayed there.

The Lord said to "cease to do evil and learn to do good". Cleanse your hands ye sinners. If you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. That is the kind of doctrine I preach and believe.

 

[DHK]

The world would be "shocked" to hear Christians say they are capable of adultery, molesting children, stealing, killing etc.
If that were the message being preached when I was in the world, then I would of just stayed there.

The Lord said to "cease to do evil and learn to do good". Cleanse your hands ye sinners. If you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. That is the kind of doctrine I preach and believe.

I suppose you don't believe God's Word when it says that David "was a man after God's own heart." David wasn't just your ordinary Christian. He was used of God to write Scripture. God spoke to him audibly. He is a direct ancestor of Christ. It is through him that the Messiah was promised. He is not just an ordinary OT saint; but one who is very specially noted and called of God to a place of pre-eminence by God Himself to occupy the Throne of David, which would be recognized as the place where the Messiah eventually sit. David, a man after God's own heart, sinned, and grievously so.

 

[PASTOR MHG]

I suppose you don't believe God's Word when it says that David "was a man after God's own heart." David wasn't just your ordinary Christian. He was used of God to write Scripture. God spoke to him audibly. He is a direct ancestor of Christ. It is through him that the Messiah was promised. He is not just an ordinary OT saint; but one who is very specially noted and called of God to a place of pre-eminence by God Himself to occupy the Throne of David, which would be recognized as the place where the Messiah eventually sit. David, a man after God's own heart, sinned, and grievously so.

Good points DHK!

I tried this argument way back at the beginning of the original thread that had run its course...they want to make a distinction between an OT saint and an NT saint to squirm out of the truth taught in the scripture.

It is funny really...if we were to start a thread on salvation in the OT v. NT, these same men would argue to the death that they are the same in both testaments.

What Irony!!!

Max

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

David wasn't just your ordinary Christian.

True. David was not even a Christian. David was righteous through faith in God.

 

[Brother Bob]

I suppose you don't believe God's Word when it says that David "was a man after God's own heart." David wasn't just your ordinary Christian. He was used of God to write Scripture. God spoke to him audibly. He is a direct ancestor of Christ. It is through him that the Messiah was promised. He is not just an ordinary OT saint; but one who is very specially noted and called of God to a place of pre-eminence by God Himself to occupy the Throne of David, which would be recognized as the place where the Messiah eventually sit. David, a man after God's own heart, sinned, and grievously so.__________________
DHK

Well, ever since you and I have been in this discussion in all the threads, you have always had to run back to David. I wonder why David seems to be your favorite person, for I never hear you quote any of the good he did, always his adultery? Why was the Old done away with that He might establish the New. Now is my change to tell you we are not living under the Law of Sacrificies and Circumcism.

Pator; there was a big difference between the OT saints and the NT saints and its called the "mind of Christ" and "The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit".

If I go out, I will go still standing on a Christian being kept by the "power of God". My Grace is sufficient to keep thee. Also, I will testify that it is safe to leave your child with a truly saved person.

 

[rbell]

How about a ground rule germane to the topic?

Could we get a list, a specific list, of which sins it is impossible for a Christian to commit?

 

[Brother Bob]

rbell; How about a ground rule germane to the topic?

Could we get a list, a specific list, of which sins it is impossible for a Christian to commit?

2Cr 3:3[Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I think you already know.

Titus 2:
11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

How could it teach you to deny ungodliness unless it taught you what it is?

The Grace of God not only saves us, but we also are kept by the Grace of God. The same one above that teaches us what "ungodliness" is.

You wouldn't deny having the above would you?

 

[rbell]

I think you already know.


How could it teach you to deny ungodliness unless it taught you what it is?

The Grace of God not only saves us, but we also are kept by the Grace of God. The same one above that teaches us what "ungodliness" is.

You wouldn't deny having the above would you?

Um, if I knew, I wouldn't ask.

Just list them. That will further the discussion. List below, if you will, the sins that a Christian cannot commit.

Can I define "ungodliness?" Yes...but that's not the question I asked. Don't make it about me.

Now...go ahead, please, and someone list below all the sins that it is impossible for a Christian to commit. Thanks.

 

[Brother Bob]

Can I define "ungodliness?" Yes...

You also know why you can define ungodliness too, right.

God has already taken care of the list and you just said you got it. So, why not work on something we don't understand?

 

[rbell]

God has already taken care of the list and you just said you got it. So, why not work on something we don't understand?

Because it is germane to the discussion, first of all.

And secondly, I'm not convinced that you or others could put a list out there. But if you could, it might help people better understand your position.

So if you don't mind...go ahead please, and list below all the sins that it is impossible for a Christian to commit. Thanks.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

For a list of the sins a Christian will not commit, look at 1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Galatians 5:21; and Proverbs 6:16-19.

It is quite evident by God's Holy Word that those who do such will not be in heaven, so they are not Christians.

Christians cannot commit those sins.

 

[Amy.G]

The only reason Christians don't run around committing every single sin on a daily basis is that we have the Holy Spirit living in us. I think a common error for a lot a Christians is underestimating the power of God in us. How far will God go to insure His child receives the inheritance of eternal life? What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit?

 

[rbell]

For a list of the sins a Christian will not commit, look at 1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Galatians 5:21; and Proverbs 6:16-19.

It is quite evident by God's Holy Word that those who do such will not be in heaven, so they are not Christians.

Christians cannot commit those sins.

So, according to HBSMN's references, a Christian cannot commit these sins: fornication, idolatry, adultery, effeminate behavior, homosexuality, thievery, coveting, drunkenness, reviling, extortion, envy, revelry, arrogant eyes, lying, shedding innocent blood, plotting wicked schemes, eagerness to do evil, false witness, stirring dissent among brothers.

Next questions: for HBSMN or others...

1. Did I leave out anything?
2. Does this mean then that if anyone commited any of the above sins, they are not saved?

 

[DHK]

So, according to HBSMN's references, a Christian cannot commit these sins: fornication, idolatry, adultery, effeminate behavior, homosexuality, thievery, coveting, drunkenness, reviling, extortion, envy, revelry, arrogant eyes, lying, shedding innocent blood, plotting wicked schemes, eagerness to do evil, false witness, stirring dissent among brothers.

Next questions: for HBSMN or others...

1. Did I leave out anything?
2. Does this mean then that if anyone commited any of the above sins, they are not saved?

witchcraft, sorcery, rape, child-molesters, pornography, spousal abuse, to name a few. Or aren't those among the "big" sins?

 

[Amy.G]

witchcraft, sorcery, rape, child-molesters, pornography, spousal abuse, to name a few. Or aren't those among the "big" sins?

Galations 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that....

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[rbell]

So, according to how some interpret, a Christian cannot commit these sins: fornication, idolatry, adultery, effeminate behavior, homosexuality, thievery, coveting, drunkenness, reviling, extortion, envy, revelry, arrogant eyes, lying, shedding innocent blood, plotting wicked schemes, eagerness to do evil, false witness, stirring dissent among brothers, uncleanness, lewdness, sorcery, hate, contentions, jealousy, wrathful outbursts, selfish ambitions, dissension, heresy, envy, murder.

Remember, now...this is a list of sins that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a Christian to commit. We're not talking about "repenting" or unrepentant, or "sins that get repented of later." We're saying: "If a person commits any of the above sins, there is NO WAY they are saved."

Wow.

I'm sure the list will get longer...

Keep in mind...I'm not here to defend any of these items as less than repulsive to God...but seems to me that if we were honest with ourselves, there's probably an item or two on there that we've committed in recent times.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

rbell,

The sad truth is that the writer clearly states that those who commit those sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. So a Child of God could not commit them else that one would not be a Child of God.

Children are heirs, and if heirs then joint-heirs. No getting by that. The Spirit is there to guide God's Children.

Christ said His sheep hear His voice and another they will not hear. Interesting... they will not hear the one who tells them to do that which is contrary to what His voice tells them.

What does His voice say? Read the Word, apply it to your heart and when the serpent whispers 'Yea, and hath God said...' you can say 'It is written...'

Submit yourselves therefore to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

with all the sins mentioned in the above verses, and Jesus statement found in Matthew 7:21-23, it should be a sobering picture for those who will inherit eternal life.

Many will claim a love for the Lord, many will claim working for the Lord, yet He will attest that He never knew them.

Many who regard iniquity in their heart feel that if they do enough good works, God will overlook the few bad things.

Straight is the gate and narrow the way that leadeth to life everlasting... and few there be that go in thereat.