Will a Christian commit certain sins? PART TWO

[ituttut]

ituttut; "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."


BB; If the sins were forgiven at the cross and were covered by His blood, then why are they brought up again when committed years later to the point that some are saying that the "sin unto death" means physical death. That is a powerful punishment for something already forgiven.

That "some" is not me. I understand all of my sins past, present, and future were taken care of at the Cross. I don't understand those that pray forgive us our sins when they have already been forgiven.

Yours and others theology just does not make sense. They were covered at the cross and forgiven or they were not and you face a physical death over them. Which is it? This makes about as much sense as standing in the rain to blow dry your hair.

You have me mixed-up with some others. Again, I know my sins were taken care of at the Cross. I do not waffle, and I know on what foundation I stand.

We all face physical death because of our parents - Adam and Eve. We are born to die, and it begins at the first breath we take, and nothing can change that. There is a universal brotherhood of man, but not a universal fatherhood of God. We die a physical death because we could not gain access to the "tree of life". We die a spiritual death because there is another Father. John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

But today we have access to not only the "tree of life" for our new bodies, after our death, but also instant spiritual connotations in Christ as sons of God. His love for us was spilled at the Cross, and we that believe in the Power of the Cross have chosen our Father. He does not lie, and we have been promised even before the world began, the hope of eternal life, of spirit, body and soul.

Where do you stand, and have all your sins all been taken care of?

 

[Rex77]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
ituttut; "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."


BB; If the sins were forgiven at the cross and were covered by His blood, then why are they brought up again when committed years later to the point that some are saying that the "sin unto death" means physical death. That is a powerful punishment for something already forgiven.
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Tell that to those christians in,

1Cor 11.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Again I ask, if the sins I committed before I got saved were removed from me as far as the east is from the west and cast into the depths of the sea, how can I commit the same sin? It is no longer in my life or in my grasp.

 

[Shiloh]

Again I ask, if the sins I committed before I got saved were removed from me as far as the east is from the west and cast into the depths of the sea, how can I commit the same sin? from the Safe Harbor eagle

Answer: because we still have an old nature! We now can ask forgiveness...1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Explain 2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[Brother Bob]

ituttut;
Where do you stand, and have all your sins all been taken care of?

I believe all my sins I had committed were forgiven and covered by the blood. I don't believe I will need to be covered again for a Christian don't committ such things as homosexuality etc. Christians do sin but not the sin unto death so now we have an advocate with God for those sins plus God will use the chastement rod to punish us for our sins that are not unto death.
I am not one of those who believe that Christians are not a new creature.

2Cr 5:17Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is what I believe if it were possible for a Christian to sin unto death.

Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (this scripture was not written to fill up space).

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 5:18¶We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Tts 2:14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Mat 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I will never understand what some say that Christians still sin the same after being saved. I think it is sickening also.

1Cr 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

 

[Brother Bob]

Tell that to those christians in,

1Cor 11.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

You are the one saying the sin was paid for twice.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Yep, I can see it now. As a believer you have to know that Jesus is always with us. C'mon Jesus... follow me... lets have a go at the neighbor's wife...
Or how about taking Jesus with you for a homosexual relationship? How about taking Him to the local x rated theater?
If one is a believer, how can someone purposely take thier Lord and Savior with them to commit any sin?
I know we all fall short daily. But Lord help us to understand that you are with us always. Help us to know that we involve you in everything we do. :tear:

 

[Brother Bob]

I guess that about says it all reformedbeliever. The Lord shall deliver us, not maybe. Now if we were being a Christian on our own, then maybe they might be right, for we are weak creatures, but "born again" Christians, are never on their own, for Jesus said "I will never leave you nor forsake you". Thank God for all He has given us.

Hbr 13:5[Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[IfbReformer]

I believe all my sins I had committed were forgiven and covered by the blood. I don't believe I will need to be covered again for a Christian don't committ such things as homosexuality etc. Christians do sin but not the sin unto death so now we have an advocate with God for those sins plus God will use the chastement rod to punish us for our sins that are not unto death.
I am not one of those who believe that Christians are not a new creature.

2Cr 5:17Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Bob, I must say I think this is the most condensed statement on what you believe that I have seen in these threads.

You have failed yet through all the many topics and threads to connect a sin unto death with a list of supposed sins a Christian could never do. This so reminds of the Catholic idea of mortal sins and venial sins(again not supported by the Scriptures).

As far as us being new creatures, I have not seen one person on any of these threads argue that we are not a new creature - one again a straw man argument on your part.

You simply insert into the Scriptures that when a Christian becomes a new creature, he can do the little sins(sins that don't lead to death) but he is not capable of doing the big sins(murder, adultery, lying...) I don't recall Paul putting your list of bigs sins the new creature cannot commit but I do know that when he said we are new creatures he explains what it means to be new creatures in these passages:

Romans 6:20(NIV)
"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness."
Romans 8:7(NIV)
"the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so."

Before I was a new creature, I was not capable of following God, I only could follow my flesh. Then the Holy Spirit regenerated me at the time of my belief, and made me a new creature. I now have the ability to allow God the Holy Spirit to guide my actions, I can yield to him instead of yielding to sin. Thats what makes me a new creature.

Again, being a new creature does not mean I become incapable of doing a certain list of sins, it just means I now have the capacity and help of the Holy Spirit to say no to those sins if I am yielding myself to him as I ought to be.

IFBReformer

 

[Brother Bob]

Again, being a new creature does not mean I become incapable of doing a certain list of sins, it just means I now have the capacity and help of the Holy Spirit to say no to those sins if I am yielding myself to him as I ought to be.

IFBReformer

The question is, are you saying NO!! How much worse is it now that you have the ability to say No, if you say YES!!

Before I was a new creature, I was not capable of following God, I only could follow my flesh. Then the Holy Spirit regenerated me at the time of my belief, and made me a new creature. I now have the ability to allow God the Holy Spirit to guide my actions, I can yield to him instead of yielding to sin. Thats what makes me a new creature.

You just said The Holy Spirit guides you and then you ask for a list? Just let the Holy Spirit lead you and It will not lead you to a sin unto death. If you do that, you won't need a written list. Be honest with yourself. IMO, you speak both ways and a double minded man is unstable in his ways.

again,
Hbr 13:5[Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

I like the way reformedbeliever, put it in the above post.

You are either in or you are out. If you are out while you have the chance and opportunity, you better make it right.

Just wondering, which of the following scriptures you find so condensed, so the Lord will know how you feel about the scriptures?


2Cr 5:17Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is what I believe if it were possible for a Christian to sin unto death.

Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (this scripture was not written to fill up space).

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 5:18¶We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Tts 2:14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Mat 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I will never understand what some say that Christians still sin the same after being saved. I think it is sickening also.

1Cr 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
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[IfbReformer]

Brother Bob,

I believe Ephesians 4 warrants its own thread see that new one in a few minutes.

IFBReformer

 

[EdSutton]

Brother Bob,

I believe Ephesians 4 warrants its own thread see that new one in a few minutes.

IFBReformer

I'm not Brother Bob, and Ephesians 4 may well warrant its own thread, but how did we get there? I just looked at the last 40 posts, without seeing Ephesians 4 being referenced even one time.

Ed

 

[IfbReformer]

I'm not Brother Bob, and Ephesians 4 may well warrant its own thread, but how did we get there? I just looked at the last 40 posts, without seeing Ephesians 4 being referenced even one time.

Ed

Sorry for the confusion brother Ed, but you hit the nail on the head - it has not be referenced so far as I can tell. Thats why I am starting a new thread on it.

IFBReformer

 

[ituttut]

Again I ask, if the sins I committed before I got saved were removed from me as far as the east is from the west and cast into the depths of the sea, how can I commit the same sin? It is no longer in my life or in my grasp.

Jesus Christ took care of every sin in the world by shedding His blood. Where did He do this? At the Cross He shed His blood. Our salvation is at the Cross. If we don't go back (repent-turning toward Him) to the Cross, availing ourselves of His blood by confessing His name, Jesus Christ, for our salvation those sins remain, for we are not circumcised, and baptized without the hands of man. We are not sealed into righteousness, thus remaining in our sins.

If we are sealed the sin is dead. I'm not sure to whom you are asking this question, but I don't believe you will find where I used that terminology of "removed from me as far as the east is from the west and cast into the depths of the sea". Those words don't apply to us today, and is the reason for the contradiction shown in your question.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

ittuttut,

All Scripture is for our profit and as such, are to be applied to us even today. 2 Timothy 3:16,17.

You cannot say one jot or one tittle of God's Word is not applicable to us today.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Perhaps you don't know enough of my theology to make such a value judgement.
I believe that a man is saved by grace through faith.
I believe in the eternal security of the believer.
I don't believe in the extreme doctrinal errors of Joey Faust.
I believe that the blood of Christ is sufficient to atone for all my sins.
I stand before God justified by faith, and have peace with him.

Now those are the truths that I have been setting forth. Other than that why are you disagreeing with me?

I know enough. Tell me what you believe is inconsistent with my statement.

 

[tinytim]

ittuttut,

All Scripture is for our profit and as such, are to be applied to us even today. 2 Timothy 3:16,17.

You cannot say one jot or one tittle of God's Word is not applicable to us today.

I certainly hope you have a Battlement built on your roof then...
Deuteronomy 22:8 KJV
(8) When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

You may want to reword what you said....

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Tim,

Notice where it says 'When thou buildest a new house...'?

I reckon if I ever build a new house, I just may put a wall on the roof. But unless the Lord intervenes, I cannot build, nor did I build the one I am in.

 

[ituttut]

ituttut;
Where do you stand, and have all your sins all been taken care of?


I believe all my sins I had committed were forgiven and covered by the blood. I don't believe I will need to be covered again for a Christian don't committ such things as homosexuality etc. Christians do sin but not the sin unto death so now we have an advocate with God for those sins plus God will use the chastement rod to punish us for our sins that are not unto death.
I am not one of those who believe that Christians are not a new creature.

I see you use the past tense of being saved of sins "past". Doesn't that leave you unprotected when you next sin? I believe you are trying to show that you can never sin again, for you say you don't believe you need to be covered again. If you should ever actually sin again I hope you realize Jesus is not going to die again for you because you will need another "past sin" forgiven. Don't be fooled for in these bodies anything is possible, and it could happen to you to become young at heart, and believe in fairytales.

Yes we are New Creatures In Christ, as He has been made sin for us, and in Him we are made righteous in Him. Where do we find "boasting" that we will never sin again in this body, a sin that has been forgiven? If it is forgiven, then the sin must be done, or Jesus died for nothing as we say we will not sin.

2Cr 5:17Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is what I believe if it were possible for a Christian to sin unto death.

The Old Covenant is dead, the law of ordinances have been nailed to the Cross. Jesus saves, by the Grace of God through faith with not work/s required on our part. No longer is the Gentile an outcast, but can even enter into the Holy of Holies. These are New. The Body of Christ is New, as is all today can be justified through faithby believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. We don't have to be circumcised, we don't have to obey the over 600 commandments of the Jew, we don't have to make blood sacrifices, or have the High Priest make the annual blood sacrifice to hold us for another year, and we don't have to be water baptized to be saved.

These Old Bodies are just the same as always, but praise God in me is a NEW SPIRIT. "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." We are of the New Testament, not that Old Testament. We will be raptured, and this brand new, for the Old today will only take us into the "Kingdom", and not the Body.

Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (this scripture was not written to fill up space).

The name of the book is Hebrews, and that space is allowed because of them; Not us.

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Amen, for we are dead to sin.

1Jo 5:18¶We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Yes we are safe in Christ for He is the only begotten son of God.

1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We in the Body of Christ are saved by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Tts 2:14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

He has redeemed us from all iniquity. He paid for us and He will keep that which He redeemed.

Mat 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

We will be judged for every idle word. When I confess the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to be my savior I have been justified through faith, and am now made righteous in Him.

I ill never understand what some say that Christians still sin the same after being saved. I think it is sickening also.

Me too.

1Cr 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Some didn't know. But today we all should, and have no excuse, and will pay for it in this, and/or at our awards ceremony.

1Cr 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Amen. We are to turn them over to Satan for the destruction of the body. I Corinthians 5:5, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

 

[tinytim]

Tim,

Notice where it says 'When thou buildest a new house...'?

I reckon if I ever build a new house, I just may put a wall on the roof. But unless the Lord intervenes, I cannot build, nor did I build the one I am in.

Fair enough answer.... :wavey: