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Worship the Holy Ghost With Father & Son?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Hark, Feb 3, 2021.

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  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone prove by the scripture that teaches the churches the "practice" to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? I know the Holy Spirit is God & He is One of the Three Witnesses within the One God, but scripture seem to confine only one way to approach God the Father in worship per John 14:6.

    And, there is only one way to honor the Father in worship per John 5:22-23 because the latter part of verse 23 singles the Son out more by saying when we do not honor the Son, we are not honoring the Father. John 5:22 seem to declare how God will judge regarding this in John 5:23.

    The glory of God rests on His Son per John 13:31-32.

    Paul stressed this obedience in having this mind of Christ in worship per Philippians 2:5-13 That means God is not glorified by addressing the Trinity nor the Holy Spirit nor the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son in worship. God the Father can only be honored & glorified in His Son in worship. That is what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do.. to testify of the Son ( John 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14, and that is not just in outreach ministry but in worship too.

    Why does it have to be that way? Well, look at how how the focus on the Holy Spirit brings about confusion in worship at various places & times. They addressed the Holy Spirit in worship, even honoring the Holy Spirit in worship & spirits fall on believers, thinking that was the Holy Spirit, regardless of the confusion they bring. Some would argue that they weren't even focusing on the Holy Spirit at that time, but yet to bring that phenomenon again, they would focus on the Holy Spirit & the phenomenon would come. I forget which year, 1997 or 1994, but the holy laughter movement broke out across the denomination as occurring in Catholics & Protestant Churches, thus no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event.

    I am led to believe that Matthew 7:13-27 is about how the modified Nicene creed broadened the way in the worship place for why & how many houses are fallen Matthew 7:24-27 and the solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate ( Luke 13:24 ) to avoid being workers of iniquity & thus denying Him by that iniquity ( Titus 1:15-16 & 2 Timothy 2:12-13 ) & be left behind ( Luke 13:24-30 ) to be resurrected after the great tribulation.

    I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for drawing my attention to His words for why weird things happen. I believe climbing up another way in approaching God the Father in worship allows the thief to break thru to take the eyes off of the Son in worship to lure or seduce believers into chasing after other gods in receiving them again & again & again after sensational signs in the flesh. The spirits of the antichrist whereby antichrist means "instead of Christ" or to be more precise "instead of the Son".

    The real indwelling Holy Spirit is confined to the box, our bodies which is the temples of the Holy Spirit; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20. The testing of the spirits is that Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) which is the same thing as saying where Christ is presently as in "is come in the flesh" in 1 John 4:2. This is confirmed when reading 1 John 4:3-4 as assigning the Spirit of Christ within us as opposing that spirit outside of us in the world to be felt outside of us. Jesus said we will know the Holy Spirit by Him dwelling in us; not how the world does in receiving spirits by seeing them being received. John 14:16-17

    So has the apostate movement of feeling the Holy Spirit in the worship place has happened yet in your Baptist church? Has any phenomenon visited your Baptist church that brought confusion or make believers fall?

    I believe this iniquity of broadening the way in the worship place will get worse & worse because when this happens when believers are addressing the Holy Spirit, honoring the Holy Spirit, or even asking God to send the Holy Spirit ahead of time when it is the Father that draws men unto the Son John 6:44 & He reveals the Son to even babes so they can believe in Him per Matthew 11:25-27. In other words, the Holy Spirit is in saved believers & the only time the Father will send the Holy Spirit is when He draws them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved. The Holy Spirit is not going to be where the spirits of the antichrist is at.

    Those that disagree.. do prayerfully discern this with Jesus Christ at that throne of grace because when something does happen when the worship is in the Holy Spirit or the Trinity, how can Baptist prove to the church that was not the Holy Spirit when they will contend "..but we were honoring the Holy Spirit in worship. It has to be Him." That is why I believe Jesus warned saved believers to strive ye to enter thru the straight gate per Luke 13:24-30 for climbing up another way is an iniquity per John 10:1.

    Again the Holy Spirit is God & of the Triune God, but the Father's will to approach Him is by the only way of the Son. John 14:6 I believe Jesus meant this as opposing any other way per John 10:1 He prophesied the churches will go astray by this iniquity & fall by it in Matthew 7:13-27 & to avoid that iniquity is to narrow the way back to John 14:6 literally or else risk being left behind per Luke 13:24-30

    I do not know if all Baptist churches have been misled by the Nicene creed or not; I hope not, but if not, watch out for those hymnals. Some are focusing on the Holy Spirit or the Trinity rather than on the Son.

    Feel free to correct me by scripture rather than not, but I believe they all align to prove why there are no scriptures teaching the churches to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.
     
  2. Scripture More Accurately

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    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    This passage does not teach that believers must only worship the Son and that the Father is only honored by people who worship the Son. John 5:23 does not say that all men should honor the Son instead of the Father; its says that all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father. Both the Father and the Son are to be honored in our worship.

    Furthermore, inspired Scripture explicitly teaches us that apostles prayed to God the Father:

    Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

    Under inspiration of the Spirit, Paul writes that he bowed his knees in prayer to God the Father.

    Moreover, Scripture reveals that both the Father and the Son are worshiped in heaven:

    Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

    Revelation 5:7 clearly distinguishes the Lamb from the One who sits on the throne. The Lamb takes the book out of the right hand of Someone else.

    Revelation 5:13 later teaches that universal worship ascribes blessing, honor, glory, and power to both the One that sits on the throne and to the Lamb.

    The One who sits on the throne in Revelation 5 is God the Father. In heaven, both the Father and the Son are worshiped.

    Scripture explicitly teaches that believers are to worship both the Father and the Son.
     
  3. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Some clarification is needed here.

    In order for the Father to be honored & worshiped is by honoring the Son. The "only" part on the Son is to defer from the honoring & worship of the Holy Spirit as if that is another way to honor God the Father by & it is not..

    Where is the glory of the Father except by His Son?

    John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. ~ KJV

    Paul stressed this obedience in having the mind of Christ in worship to the glory of God the Father.

    Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. ~ KJV

    I agree for why clarity was needed for why I applied "only" on the Son which was to defer from including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. If any saved believer & church wishes to honor the Father, we do this by the scripture as you had applied by honoring the Son in worship; not by honoring the Holy Spirit or the "Trinity", but the Son.

    And yes, we approach God the father by way of Jesus as we pray in Jesus's name so we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

    There are those who would pray to the Holy Spirit but He is not the Mediator between God & men, but Christ Jesus is. We can pray to the Father but it is the Father permitting the Son to answer the prayer for why the Father gets thanks in Jesus's name.

    Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, KJV

    Thank you for sharing.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Since the Holy Spirit Himself is God, we can pray to and worship Him, but He prefers to stay in the background, as He honors and exaults the Lord Jesus!
     
  5. Scripture More Accurately

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    Where does the Bible teach that the Spirit "prefers to stay in the background"?
     
  6. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    If believers are praying to the Holy Spirit & worshiping the Holy Spirit, then how can He be in the background when that focus is on the Holy Spirit? How can the Holy Spirit in you lead you to exalt the Lord Jesus Christ if your focus is on Himself?

    There are no scripture teaching any believer to pray to the Holy Spirit, let alone worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or even worshipping the " Trinity " as if that is the name by how God the Father is glorified by.

    There is no denying the Holy Spirit when believers acknowledge scripture of what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do which is to testify of the Son thru us ( John 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) and that has to include worship as well.

    You are identified as Baptist so I ask you if you had experience any phenomenon normally associated with Pentecostalism/ Charismatic in your Baptist church? Have you ever felt a presence outside of you in the worship place? If so read 1 John 4:1-4

    Do you practice tongues for private use? If so, then read 1 John 4:5-6 for why that tongue is not a foreign language but is found in the world as pagan's supernatural tongue per Isaiah 8:19.which had existed before Pentecost for why that is not God's gift of tongues. That is why saved believers are led astray by spirits coming over them later in life bringing that tongue ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & yet Paul warned us in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ).

    Hopefully you have not fallen for that but you are still my brother if you did per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 but I would be called to withdraw from you in any further discussion with you to admonish you to repent as the Bridegroom will be coming soon.

    If you are not, you are laying the groundwork for seducing spirits to come in & bring about confusion, so please be aware.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated that the Spirit will come and will exalt Jesus!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I was a teaching Elder in Assemblies of God for a decade, and just saying that the Holy Spirit can be talked to, prayed to and worshiped, as he is God, but the norm would be to worship the Father and the Son!
     
  9. Scripture More Accurately

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    How does that show that the Spirit "prefers to stay in the background"?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He will lift up Jesus and not Himself!
     
  11. Scripture More Accurately

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    Where does the Bible say that?
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    John 16:14
     
  13. Scripture More Accurately

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    That's really not what John 16:13-14 teaches.

    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    When Jesus said that the Spirit would not speak of Himself, He did not mean that the Spirit would not speak about Himself. The "but" following that phrase explains in what sense the Spirit would not speak of Himself: He will not originate what He speaks, but He will speak what He hears.

    There are many passages where the Spirit does speak of Himself and does not say anything about Christ in those statements. For example, Genesis 1:2 and Acts 8:39. In the latter, the Spirit is the One who catches up Philip in a miraculous demonstration of His divine power that certainly glorifies the Deity of the Spirit.

    Moreover, in Acts 13:2, the Spirit speaks of Himself as the One who has called Barnabas and Saul for a specific work, and He demands that the church at Antioch separate these two ministers unto Him (the Spirit). It simply is not true that the Spirit never speaks of Himself and always points attention only or even primarily to Christ.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the most "Holy Spirit" church would be where the Lord Jesus is taught on and magnified!
     
  15. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Since the saved believers have the Holy Spirit in them since salvation, then they would be led by the Holy Spirit to exalt Jesus.

    But that is not happening when focus is on the Holy Spirit to come & I dare say that is not the Holy Spirit coming in the assembly of believers when He is in them; 1 John 4:1-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 testify to that being the spirit of the antichrist as opposed to where the Spirit of Christ dwells which is in us because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, not the gathering place of worship any more per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
     
  16. Scripture More Accurately

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    The Bible never speaks of churches being "Holy Spirit" churches; I do not know what terminology is supposed to mean.

    Churches should teach everything that the Bible teaches. A church that teaches about the Lord Jesus and magnifies Him biblically is a biblical church.
     
  17. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    With Jesus Christ as the Head as we are to be disciples of Jesus Christ in baptizing others in His name, I cannot see how anyone can say that it is the Holy Spirit churches. 1 Corinthians 11:3 & Ephesians 4:15 & Ephesians 5:23

    Since scripture & the indwelling Holy Ghost points others to the Son to glorify Him ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-15 & Matthew 5:39-40 , then believers need to put the spotlight on the Son & keep it there & not the Holy Spirit at all
     
  18. Scripture More Accurately

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    Jesus has commanded His disciples to baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit:

    Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    Having been in Baptist churches my entire Christian life and attended maybe a hundred or more baptismal services, the vast majority of those baptized (maybe even >95%) were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is Hark Oneness?
     
  20. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    The "name" of the Father & the Son, & the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ as that is the name of God to call upon to be saved.

    How do we know this? By how His disciples put it into practice in the Book of Acts. They baptized in Jesus's name.
     
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