Featured Would Paul Washer Be Welcome to Speak at Your Local Church

thisnumbersdisconnected · Jan 13, 2014

Thousand Hills said: ↑

If you say so, you can keep your Ed Young Jr. types. I'll stick with PW.

http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2012/07/ed-youngs-8000-sf-mansion-on-market-in.html
Click to expand...

For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone needs to find a human representative with "name recognition" with whom to identify. I don't even know who Ed Young Jr. is, and don't care. I've got my church, my pastor, my friends, my co-minister in our men's ministry, my one year at an unaccredited (by educational standards) Bible college that was a waste of money, career-wise but eternally invaluable in helping me understand my new found faith of the time. I don't need Washer, Young (whoever he is) or even Spurgeon, Calvin, Luther or anyone else -- though those latter-mentioned giants of the faith are great reads. All I need is Jesus. I have Him, He has placed me where I am, and I am more than content to help His people, love me wife and kids, and "act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with" Him.

Quite frankly, I'm beginning to think being on this board is a waste of time.

Zaac · Jan 13, 2014

thisnumbersdisconnected said: ↑

He can be as humble as Jesus Himself, but calling his fellow Southern Baptist evangelists "stupid" because they dare to give a converted sinner hope through a prayer to receive Jesus Christ is in itself utterly stupid. He may be misunderstood, but he's not helping himself with ignorant comments like that.
Click to expand...

How are they giving a converted sinner hope through a prayer to receive Christ? If he's a converted sinner, hasn't he already received Christ?

What Washer tries to say is that we shouldn't have folks say a "sinner's prayer" as though the prayer has the power to save. And he's right. we do this in the US. And we go to other countries and do the same thing and come back and tell of the hundreds who said a prayer and got saved. It's a terribly, dangerous thing to do

One of the videos of him on You.Tube features him crying and recounting how he spent hours and hours and hours with some big guy who came into an Alaskan church Washer was preaching at, and the guy at the end of the service says something to the effect of "That can't be all there is to it. There's got to be more. I understand it, it can't be that easy." So Washer begins this marathon with him and starts taking the guy through Scripture after Scripture, until he took him to John 3:16, and suddenly the guy breaks down, blubbering, "I'm saved! My sins are washed away, I am redeemed!" Washer then makes a production out of proclaiming that is the right way to evangelize. Really? Hours and hours and hours of going through the Bible to no avail, only to have the simplicity of John 3:16 convince the guy it really is that simple, that his understanding, his emotional, intellectual and most importantly, his spiritual agreement with that verse truly did constitute his realization that he was, indeed, a sinner in need of a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Click to expand...

But who is to say that the guy would have gotten the simplicity of it if he had not been taken through what he was? The path that God uses to get folks to that point is often different every time.

Again, really??? Tell me something: How is John 3:16 not one of the very first verses a witness takes a sinner who is troubled by his sin? Washer may have had some intent to prove something with that video, I'm not sure what it was. But what he actually proves is it really is that simple, if the Holy Spirit is in it. It doesn't take some marathon Scripture exploration, the sweat of the evangelist -- trust me, God doesn't need our sweat, he needs our heart. It takes the heart of the sinner (!!) that the Holy Spirit has prepared for change, and an ascent to that change, also enabled by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who thinks it's harder, doesn't know God very well in the first place.
Click to expand...

I think if you look at Scripture, repentance is vital. John the Baptist said do that first and Scripture shows that has to happen first. A sinner has to be shown that like all of us, he is wretched, clothed in unforgiven sin and in need of the Savior's forgiveness. And THEN you can go to John 3:16.:thumbsup:

Thousand Hills · Jan 13, 2014

thisnumbersdisconnected said: ↑

One of the videos of him on You.Tube features him crying and recounting how he spent hours and hours and hours with some big guy who came into an Alaskan church Washer was preaching at, and the guy at the end of the service says something to the effect of "That can't be all there is to it. There's got to be more. I understand it, it can't be that easy." So Washer begins this marathon with him and starts taking the guy through Scripture after Scripture, until he took him to John 3:16, and suddenly the guy breaks down, blubbering, "I'm saved! My sins are washed away, I am redeemed!" Washer then makes a production out of proclaiming that is the right way to evangelize. Really? Hours and hours and hours of going through the Bible to no avail, only to have the simplicity of John 3:16 convince the guy it really is that simple, that his understanding, his emotional, intellectual and most importantly, his spiritual agreement with that verse truly did constitute his realization that he was, indeed, a sinner in need of a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Again, really??? Tell me something: How is John 3:16 not one of the very first verses a witness takes a sinner who is troubled by his sin? Washer may have had some intent to prove something with that video, I'm not sure what it was. But what he actually proves is it really is that simple, if the Holy Spirit is in it. It doesn't take some marathon Scripture exploration, the sweat of the evangelist -- trust me, God doesn't need our sweat, he needs our heart. It takes the heart of the sinner (!!) that the Holy Spirit has prepared for change, and an ascent to that change, also enabled by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who thinks it's harder, doesn't know God very well in the first place.
Click to expand...

Here is the transcript, tell me again where he failed to adequately present the Gospel and labour to help this man face his challenges in peace.

Let me give you a story, a story that is one of the most precious moments in my life as a Christian.

I was preaching in Canada just 30 kilometers from Alaska. There really were more grizzly bears in the town than there were people! It was a little church of about 15 or 20 people, and I was to preach. And just when I got up into the pulpit, this mountain of a man walked in, in his 60s or early 70s. He could have whipped every one of us in this building. And as I preached, as I saw his face, I just threw everything away and started preaching the Gospel. He was the saddest human being I had ever seen. I preached just Gospel and more Gospel, and when I was done, I walked from the pulpit directly to him.

I said, “Sir, what is wrong? What is troubling your soul? I have never seen a man so sad and down-hearted in all my life?” He pulled out a manila envelope; it had some x-rays which I couldn’t understand. But he said, “I just came from the doctor. I am going to die in three weeks.” That is what he told me. “Now I have lived all my life on a working cattle ranch.You can only get there by float plane or riding horses across the mountains.” He said, “I have never been to church; I have never read a Bible. I believe there is a God, and one time I heard somebody talking about some guy named Jesus.” He said, “I
have never been afraid of anything in my life—and I am terrified.” I said, “Sir, did you understand the message, the Gospel?”He said, “Yes.”

Now what would have a great majority of preachers done at that moment? “Well, would you like to ask Jesus to come into your heart?”—that is what they would have done.

I said, “Sir, you understood it?” He said, “I understood it, but is that it?” He said, “A child could have understood that. Is that all it is, that I understand
it and I pray, or...?” I said, “Sir, you are going to die in three weeks. I have to leave tomorrow. I will cancel my plane ticket and we will stay here over the Scriptures wrestling and crying out to God until you are either converted or you die and go to hell.”

And so we began. I began in the Old Testament, the New Testament, every verse of Scripture dealing with the promises of God regarding redemption and salvation, over and over, time after time, reading John 3:16, praying for a while, crying out to God, questioning the man regarding repentance, regarding faith, regarding assurance—working till Christ be formed in him.

And then finally, just exhausted that evening, there was no breakthrough; there was nothing. And I said, “Sir, let’s pray.” And we prayed.I said, “Sir, read John 3:16 again.”He said, “We have read this a million times.”I said, “I know, but it is one of the greatest promises of salvation. Read that text again.”
And I will never forget it. He had my Bible on his lap in those big mountainous hands of his and he said, “OK.” He said,“For God so loved the world, that He gave...—I’m saved. I’m saved! Brother Paul, all my sins are gone! I have eternal life! I’m saved!” I said, “How do you know?”He said, “Haven’t you ever read this verse before?”

What was going on? A working of the Spirit of God, instead of those little tricks you try. What!—you want to go eat? What!—you think preaching is a spectacle, and after that you go back to the hotel? No, after the preaching is when the work begins.

It is dealing with souls. People come forward in meetings for counsel by someone who shouldn’t be counseling. And after five minutes, they are given the sinner’s prayer to pray and the card to sign. And then, quick, give the card to the pastor, and the pastor says, “I would like to present to you a new child of God. Welcome him into the family of God.” How dare you!!

If you are going to present him, say this: “This man tonight has made a profession of faith in Jesus Christ. And because of our fear of God and our love for the souls of men, we will now be working with him to make sure that Christ has truly been formed in him, that he truly has a biblical understanding of repentance and faith, and great assurance and joy in the Holy Spirit. That is what we are going to do.”Look at what we have done in modern Christianity. I plead with you, look at what we are doing. And this is not some strange cult. This is us that we are talking about. I plead with you: Stop it. Please, stop it!
Click to expand...

Revmitchell · Jan 13, 2014

thisnumbersdisconnected said: ↑

For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone needs to find a human representative with "name recognition" with whom to identify.
Click to expand...

Interesting isn't it?

Quite frankly, I'm beginning to think being on this board is a waste of time.
Click to expand...

As have quite a few others recently. Largely because of some cals.

Thousand Hills · Jan 13, 2014

Revmitchell said: ↑

As have quite a few others recently. Largely because of some CAGEY cals.
Click to expand...

Fixed your post there for you Rev.:tongue3:

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

I don't need Washer, Young (whoever he is) or even Spurgeon, Calvin, Luther or anyone else -- though those latter-mentioned giants of the faith are great reads. All I need is Jesus. I have Him, He has placed me where I am, and I am more than content to help His people, love me wife and kids, and "act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with" Him.

Quite frankly, I'm beginning to think being on this board is a waste of time.
Click to expand...

yes perhaps it is.....you are too holy and have need of nothing....you know all truth and you are not your brothers keeper...

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Revmitchell

As have quite a few others recently. Largely because of some cals.
Click to expand...

Or they read your "posts"....

saturneptune · Jan 13, 2014

There is a vast difference in the way those supporting Paul Washer present their case. Posters like Thousand Hills, PFT, Zaac, and Numbers use reasonable opinions. People like Rippon and JDF are here just to throw a wrench into the thread.

Zaac · Jan 13, 2014

Well I still think that Paul Washer is one of the most solid Biblical preachers around right now.

I love preachers who are bold enough to unashamedly preach the truth and humble enough to do it in love.

:godisgood:

He may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I think if you listen to several of his sermons, he sets about calling the Body of Christ to take seriously this commission that God has given us to be His ambassadors. There really is so much of the church that just isn't what Jesus left behind over in Acts. And we have just got to do better. But I don't know if some want to do better. There seem to be so many content to look inward and not really be concerned about holiness and the things that Christ has called us to.

Paul Washer wants to see individuals saved and he is very serious about us taking it seriously and exhorting others to portray Christ in their walks.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Thousand Hills said: ↑

SN, I have lost a lot of respect for you over the past year or so because of some of your posts, but this post takes the cake, did you read any of these articles or research who wrote them. I doubt it, you probably just Googled "PW False Teacher" and copied and pasted the first few links.

Lets take a look at some of these shall we?

This cat has quite an extensive list of false teachers on his website. Even the prince of preachers himself CHS.

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falseteachers/index.htm#list

At the bottom the "author" identifies himself as a retired Pastor of the Church of God (TN).

In the first line of this one the "author" calls the SBC apostate. I believe you go to an SBC church don't you. While I am SB and I sincerely have concerns about a number of things, I wouldn't call it apostate, its got its issues, but still the best thing going in the good ole US of A. The author of this site is another Fundy nut job with a long list of false teachers.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

While I understand that PW can be controversial, and I understand you were not happy with your personal experiences hearing him preach, your vitrol for him is quite over the top. But I'm glad for your OP as some folks lurking might give him a listen, grab their bibles, and decide for themselves.
Click to expand...

These links are an indication of those who oppose Paul Washer....when you read some of the links on google you find the same objections being offered falsely...they link him to a works gospel and say he teaches the "EVIL" teaching of lordship salvation.....One of the links listed JOHNNY MAC, CHS, and George Mueller, Tim challies as false teachers....????

There is a clear divide on the biblical understanding of grace.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Revmitchell

Uh no not ever
Click to expand...

Do not worry....those who invite him to preach will not be calling your number anytime soon.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Thousand Hills said: ↑

Video is basically snippets of PW (taken out of context) with snippets of the Fundy pastor rambling.

Fundy Pastor just jealous and trying to maintain control of his congregation IMO.
Click to expand...

This Anderson is not even a christian...have you ever heard him???Horrible.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Salty

Steve Anderson (banned member of BB) in the video said he is a false teacher because he does not preach out of the KJV. - ...
Click to expand...

He is an unstable person....no real pastor at all. I heard him saying only his church was true????

Zaac · Jan 13, 2014

Iconoclast said: ↑

Salty

He is an unstable person....no real pastor at all. I heard him saying only his church was true????
Click to expand...

I don't know much about him. But he's got a beautiful family.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

thisnumbersdisconnected

He got himself cleaned up,
Click to expand...

reformation is not salvation

old his bike, stopped smoking dope and dealing it to others (his own admission, apparently never having been caught selling), put together a resume, and got a job (he had a degree in education, but never felt motivated to use it) at a local high school as a history teacher and automotive shop instructor. He started serving at a soup kitchen (one he'd personally eaten at often in his drunken stupor days) and taking the gospel to his former biker buddies.

But he couldn't give up drinking. He went through several treatment outpatient programs, finally in the summer, when school was out, checking into an inpatient program. He fell off the wagon six months later. He came to the pastor, crying out for help, God's mercy, God's removal of his sin -- and kept drinking. He even started dating a young lady at the church, married her, had two kids -- and kept drinking. He hated himself every time he gave into the urge, but not falling into the temptation was not an option.

So, I ask you, was he "carnal"
Click to expand...

Yes ..he was carnal in the heart and needed to repent and be saved.

because here's what I see: Washer would condemn this man to hell.
Click to expand...

No Godly pastor would assure this man he was a christian while he practiced this sin.....such were some of you...not such ARE some of you-

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Many on this board would too. I've never seen Washer say anything that would mitigate my statement here.
Click to expand...

Your statement is unbiblical...completely unbiblical.

He would mercilessly judge this man and claim he was not saved. And again, many on this board would too.
Click to expand...

You have no basis in scripture to say he was saved as he was bound by this sin.

I never met the drunken ex-biker, but I trust my former pastor, a solid preacher and Bible believer, and he was convinced -- I believe rightly so -- that the man was saved
Click to expand...

,

nonsense..

but couldn't find the ability to surrender to the Holy Spirit regarding that one stronghold.
Click to expand...

This again is unbiblical nonsense...where do you find this stronghold IDEA?

I believe he will pay in lost reward for the missed opportunities, the rejected chances at ministry, he undoubtedly experienced because of his drinking. But not saved?
Click to expand...

Oh the antinomian carnal christian heresy from dispensational roots...it is clear now:thumbs:

Nonsense.
Click to expand...

This idea as expressed is nonsense.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Zaac said: ↑

I don't know much about him. But he's got a beautiful family.

Click to expand...

Zaac...his family is one thing....I am sure many cult members have cute children also...but a cult is a cult for a reason. look him up online...listen to any 5-10 of his sermons...you will see quickly that he is unstable...I did not save them to my "favorites" or anything...I listened because he is an outspoken anti-cal...I quickly discovered he is clueless and cult like...take a listen for yourself.

If he was banned from BB as they say.....you might find some of his gems in the archives...

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

Zaac

Strongholds are real. And just because someone continues in a particular sin after being saved doesn't mean they were never saved
Click to expand...

.[/QUOTE]

This is a denial of the scriptural testimony of the work of the Spirit in regeneration and conversion.

Iconoclast · Jan 13, 2014

JohnDeereFan said: ↑

Funny how two people can listen to the same thing, but hear something different.

You say you hear him deciding who is saved. I hear him proclaiming what God has already said and explaining the criteria for salvation.

You make it sound as if he's saying, "Bob, congratulations! You're saved! Joe, too bad about you. You're going to Hell."

That's not what he's saying at all. He's explaining what the Bible says you must do to be saved and discussing what happens to those who have done that, those people who haven't, and those who say they have, but are producing no good fruit.
Click to expand...

Yes,,,I have not heard him preach anything that is not scripturally based and i have heard about a dozen sermons.

saturneptune · Jan 13, 2014

I think we are not describing the gap accurately between a Christian and Paul Washer. Many have posted that a person cannot really be saved if he is practicing sin. That is a straw man, because no one said a person practicing sin is a Christian, although an argument can be made for it in Romans 7 and 8.

What the gap is the power behind moral behavior. A Christian living in the power of God, saved by Jesus Christ, and guided by the Holy Spirit, first, exhibits the fruits of the Spirit. Secondly, this person lives a life for Jesus Christ through faith and the power of the Holy Spirit. It comes naturally and is not through self effort.

What Paul Washer teaches is to take an inventory of all your sins, and through your own effort, correct them. No mention is ever made of the book of James that works are a byproduct of faith, not a creation of human effort. In addition to preaching a Pharisee mindset, the proof of his lack of a life of victory in Jesus Christ is the tone and message of his talks. They are not really sermons. Instead of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and edification, he projects arrogance, self centeredness, anger, meanness, disrespect, and division within the local church.

Nothing could be clearer. No human can say who is going to hell and who is not. If humans could, this person would be totally unqualified to make that call. If one follows the pattern of his talks, it does not take a rocket scientist to realize he is nothing but an entertainer on the order of Rush Limbaugh. His basic overall pattern is to build up a crowd into a frenzy, a positive frenzy, then, tell everyone they are not saved, and spend the rest of the talk telling the audience how worthless they are. This is the standard of a false teacher.

Zaac · Jan 13, 2014

Iconoclast said: ↑

Zaac

This is a denial of the scriptural testimony of the work of the Spirit in regeneration and conversion.
Click to expand...

Iconoclast

I'm not denying regeneration and conversion. Just like with Paul's thorn, I just don't see why the regeneration can't be an ongoing process.

For sure we'd like for folks to be completely freed of a stronghold upon conversion. But sometimes it just doesn't go that way.

Featured Would Paul Washer Be Welcome to Speak at Your Local Church

thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

Zaac Well-Known Member

Thousand Hills Active Member

Revmitchell Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Thousand Hills Active Member

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

saturneptune New Member

Zaac Well-Known Member

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Zaac Well-Known Member

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

saturneptune New Member

Zaac Well-Known Member

Useful Searches

Featured Would Paul Washer Be Welcome to Speak at Your Local Church

thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

Zaac Well-Known Member

Thousand Hills Active Member

Revmitchell Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Thousand Hills Active Member

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

saturneptune New Member

Zaac Well-Known Member

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Zaac Well-Known Member

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member Site Supporter

saturneptune New Member

Zaac Well-Known Member

Revmitchell Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast Well-Known Member
Site Supporter