Would this happen at the Rapture?

If there is something in there you feel is relevant, go ahead and post it. But I am more interested in what you believe, rather than what others believe. The Old Testament Doctrine of Resurrection was limited, and taught only one resurrection. It did not teach about the multiple resurrections or Rapture that we now know will take place. Nor was the fact that Messiah being put to death and rising again known to men, for the Gospel was yet a Mystery.

God bless.

 

Here's something for post trib believers to consider: if the Rapture takes place after the Tribulation, who populates the earth so that the multitude that rises up with Satan come into existence?

While some deny a literal thousand year period, there is no basis to do so.

God bless.

 

Isaiah disagrees with you

 

To answer part of the OP question, if the mother isn't saved, she won't be raptured. As for any baby she might be carrying, I don't know. But I believe if the mom's raptured, the fetus goes with her.

 

I like

I like your reasoning Darrell and it is obvious you have given much thought to your statements. We might have a few differing views on a few things but we have arrived at the same place.

Someone mentioned original sin and it is my view that people who teach that view about sin believe that sin is a state of being rather than an act of lawlessness. While it is true that all those born in the image of Adam will eventually sin, it is not because we are created sinners, but it is because we are in Adam's image. His image is body and soul. The power of an endless life is the Spirit of God, who no one possesses by the physical birth. This is the result of the fall. Now, because of this no one has the power by the sheer force of the will to to keep from sinning because the flesh without the Spirit is weak (see Rom 7). Romans 5, in explaining this says that sin entered into the world by Adam and is now a sovereign over all creation, ruling unto death. By death here he means physical death.

The problem that all men have when they are conceived in the womb and are born into the world is that they are born spiritually dead, if spiritual death is defined as incomplete, or as being separated from the presence of God in our bodies. If the definition of spiritual life is having the Spirit of Christ and of God indwelling our mortal bodies, and it is, then the opposite is also true, that is that spiritual death is not having him dwelling in our physical bodies.

This is why Jesus Christ came in the flesh, to live a sinless life and to die for sinners. Christ had the Spirit of God from his conception and lived a sinless life by the power of the Spirit who indwelt him. John the Baptist said of him in Jn 3 that God gave not the Spirit unto him by measure and it was the Spirit that he poured out of his body on the cross and that was represented by the water that came out of his pierced side along with the blood, which was his life. Those who receive him as the only way of salvation and reconciliation to God by faith in what he has done for us will be given his Spirit, the life of God. Now we are made in the image of Jesus Christ who is the express image of God. Now we await the glorification of the body when we will be saved from the possibility of sin and that will take place at the rapture.

I love talking about my savoir, Jesus Christ.

God is the Judge of all the earth and will justify all those who believe what he says, no matter when they live. But it is because that Jesus Christ will be sent to pay for sin and justification is by faith. However salvation is only through the blood of Jesus Christ (without the shedding of blood is no remission) and God counts the OT believers as justified when they believe what he says. The evidence for their believing is their obedience to what he said (see Rom 4 and He 11). So, justification is by God the Father but salvation from the penalty of sin is by Jesus Christ in his death and resurrection.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Therefore, babies will be delivered at the rapture, I think, because they are not sinners.

 

I think the answer really depends upon when you think life begins. For me life begins at conception. The child has not sinned so would not be condemned for sins not committed thus would be saved /Raptured.

As for the faith of the mother I do not think that would enter into it for the reasons I have just stated.

 

\Why do you think God gives faith to anyone, let alone the unborn?

 

Because the a Bible says so

 

You had made an (snip) assertion of children being innocent. Children are safe only having had Christ to have paid for their sins too.

 

What sins did the unborn and babes do?

 

Will any unbelieving humans from their conception to the grave be raptured? Nope

They are condemned already due to unbelief, John 3:18.

We have had endless threads trying to save the feeble-minded (unable to believe) and those too young to have responded to the gospel, such as those not yet born. As with all scripture nullification efforts for a "good cause" these threads deny the inspired word of God.

 

So what is your answer to the op? Is it your understanding that sin is a state of being rather than an act in spite of the definitions and descriptions of sin I have already posted in one of my comments? Is it your position that those three passages you referenced somehow modifies those definitions?

If you were the apostle Paul writing to the Romans in 58 AD (the year he wrote the epistle to the Romans) and you were looking back over a clearly defined time period, the time between Adam and Moses, which was over 1500 years past, would you not realize that you were not addressing a single child or fetus in the womb, but all who have grown up, sinned and died, thus proving your point that in Adam all die even before the written law was given defining sin and even though sin was not imputed to them in the absence of law?

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Do you not see his point? None of those people were guilty of Adam's sin, nevertheless sin and the resulting death was introduced into the world through Adam and none had the power in their flesh to resist sin, all violating their consciousness of right and wrong by their deeds and all having sinned and died.

Now Adam is given as a figure of Jesus Christ in Paul's present tense. He came to give the power over sin, the gift of God, the Spirit, who we learn is life and it was for as many as were affected by Adam. So in Adam sin and death to the world. In Christ imputed righteousness and life to the world. See the remainder of this parenthetical statement by the great apostle.


15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift (the gift is the Spirit of Christ making the recipient a three part man, a trinity and in the image of Christ) by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

These are simple words. I do not know what makes them so hard for people to grasp.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

You do not know. If Christ didn't die to include them, on what basis would they be included in the the first resurrection, Revelation 20:6 or rapture, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17?

 

Someone who has not committed a sin, which is defined as a conscious act of rebellion against the law of God, does not need a savior and will be included in the blessings of God. You do not think Adam needed for Jesus to die for him before he sinned, do you?

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

The above is parenthetical to a greater point on the subject of justifying faith. You should read the context.

 

So Romans 3:23 is not true. ". . . For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; . . ."

 

Let's say the mother is raptured.

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

What effect would that have on the baby she is carrying?

If she isn't raptured, I assume the baby will be born and will then be in need of being born from above.

 

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Gen 2:24,25
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me. Ps 51:5
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. “Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:6,7