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Featured Ye must be born again !

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Feb 9, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    John 3:7

    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

    Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


    Mark 1:14

    Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

    Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

    And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

    Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

    But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !
     
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  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

    Peter said 1 Pet 1:23

    23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    The word of here is the greek word ek and it means:

    out of, from, by, away from

    This denotes that being born is out of a seed ! Those who are born physically out of Adam, the corruptible seed, they were in Adam from the beginning of creation. Their physical lives were included in the them . Gen 1:27

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Gen 5:2

    Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


    When Adam was first created he had created within him his wife and his offspring that he was to bring forth, this we know because God said to him after He created him Gen 1:27-28

    27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

    Adam had a seed to bring forth of his kind as all living creatures did.

    We know God had given them a seed from these words Gen 3:15

    15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her [Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Of course Eve's seed was Adam's seed.

    Gen 4:25

    25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

    Now hopefully we see the concept of being born entails first having a existence in a seed. Unfortunately being of ones seed is not determined by the offspring.

    For instance, Levi did not determine himself to be of the seed of Abraham, to be in Abraham's loins as here Heb 7:9-10

    9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

    10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

    Who determined that Levi was of the seed of Abraham ?
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus also stated it, in Matthew, Mark and Luke in another way, ". . . Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Where Nicodemus' question comes out the same, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
     
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  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    No one has addressed the question, on how did Levi become of the seed of Abraham, hence ensuring he would be born to Abraham's Family ? This will help to understand Jesus statement, ye must be born again !
     
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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;"

    "If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God"

    Born from above = the Jerusalem that is above our mother Galatians 4:26 = born of the Spirit John 3:8 = born of God John 1:13

    The heavenly born. Children of Zion. Psalms 87
     
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  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Regeneration and being born again !

    I find it to be no better time to include in this thread the Truth of regeneration while witnessing to the need of being born again. The truth of the matter is this, in order to be born again, one must first be regenerated. I know many think they are the exact same thing, but they are not, however they are related or connected to one another. Only those being regenerated by their Union with Christ shall be born from above . Now understand this, Regeneration is corporate or collective, and occurred all at once for the entire body of Christ or seed together, by virtue of their union with the risen Christ.

    The New Birth is Individual and occurs to each of the regenerated appointed time by God. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

    1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    2 A time to be born, and a time to die

    This applies equally to spiritually being born. The word born here is the hebrew word yalad and means:

    to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

    to beget

    The word is used in Isa 66:8

    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

    Each of the regenerated shall be brought forth in their New Birth. Remember when James wrote James 1:18

    18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    The word beget here means to bring forth, James here is describing the New Birth of those who had been regenerated. The word of Truth, which is the Gospel brings this New Birth to light or to manifestation.

    Again, Regeneration is corporate, its the sum total of every member of Christ seed, having been in Him when died, was buried, and risen again, they rose together with Him, that was their regeneration from the dead as well, and their being seated together with Him in the Heavenlies [above]. You see when Christ laid down His Life for the Sheep, the Life of the church was laid also [ 2 Cor 5:14], and when He took it again and rose from the dead [Jn 10:17], it was a reproduction or regeneration. Isa 26:19 6

    19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

    This is the describing in prophecy, the regeneration of Christ [after death] and His Church in Union with Him see [ Eph 2:6] !
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Define word regeneration !

    In coming to a biblical understanding of the word regeneration, we shall define the word. Its used only Twice in the NT :

    Matt 19:28

    And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Titus 3:5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    The word in the greek is the feminine noun paliggenesia:

    ) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

    a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death

    Its made up of two greek words palin which means:

    anew, again

    a) renewal or repetition of the action

    b) again, anew

    And the word genesis which means:

    source, origin


    a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

    2) used of birth, nativity

    3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life

    It also means generation as in Matt 1:1

    1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

    So the word can mean a New Generation, A new beginning, A New existence, or origin, A New source, a New reproduction.

    Again, the New Birth is a outcome of this Regeneration.

    One of the definitions of regeneration is :


    a renewal or restoration of life after death

    This Our Lord experienced, in His resurrection.

    Acts 3:15

    And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

    Acts 13:34

    And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.


    Rom 6:9-10

    9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

    I could multiply scriptures, but the point is to show that in the sense of restoration of life after death, Christ experienced a regeneration.

    I believe this is what He meant in Matt 19:28, when He says in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the Throne of His Glory.

    When did this occur if not after His resurrection ? Scripture plainly intimates that after His suffering, His death and resurrection, He shall enter into His Glory. Lk 24:26,20

    26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

    Suffer what things ? see vs 20

    20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

    When He rose from the Dead He became Lord of both the dead and the Living Rom 14:9

    For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

    This word revive means the same as regeneration, a restoration of life after death.

    After Christ's humiliating death, and His resurrection, He entered into His Mediatorial Glory as both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36

    Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    He was invested with [from the Father] all power in both Heaven and Earth Matt 28:19

    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    If these things were not entering into His Throne of Glory as stated in Matt 19:28, I don't know what is ?

    And if so, that's the regeneration He spake of.

    Now one more thing about the Matt 19:28, in the original there is no punctuation, that is the translators supply them as they deem it best to their Judgment. In light of that, there should have been a period after the words followed me instead of the comma.

    And so it would read Matt 19:28

    28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me. In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Jesus was specifically telling His Disciples, the ones who followed Him, the Twelve, that they would be Co Rulers with Him in the Spread of His Gospel Kingdom throughout the Earth. Perhaps what Jesus had in mind was this what He spake unto them earlier in Matt 16:17-19

    17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    This I believe is a direct fulfillment of Isa 32:1

    1Behold, a king[Jesus Christ] shall reign in righteousness, and princes[The Twelve] shall rule in judgment.

    Now the main point hitherto is that Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead, is a regeneration and entering into His Glory !
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    More on Regeneration !

    Now I have previously shown how the word regeneration can and does mean a renewing, a reviving, a restoring to Life after death, and that Christ's rising from the dead was a regeneration, whereby afterwards He entered into His Glory.

    Again, the word regeneration is composed of two greek words, one being :

    the word genesis which means: genesis

    source, origin

    a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

    2) used of birth, nativity

    Notice, its a birth.

    Now how many scriptures are there that indicates Jesus Christ being a birth or begotten ?

    Acts 13:33

    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    The word begotten here is the greek word gennaō and means:


    to be born

    b) to be begotten

    1) of women giving birth to children

    The raising up again and the begotten thee are analogous.

    Col 1:18

    18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    The word for firstborn here in describing the resurrection of Christ, is the word tiktō and means:


    to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)

    a) of a woman giving birth

    Rev 1:5

    5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    So, it can be biblically established that Christ Resurrection from the dead was a Birth or a Generation.

    Now, with that in mind, He was the Federal Head of a seed that was in Him, and when He rose from the dead, His seed rose with Him, that is His regeneration from the dead, was also their regeneration from the dead, for He rose not as a private individual, but as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

    Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

    This is what Paul means also in Eph 2:6, that we were raised up together with Christ. Eph 2:6

    6And hath raised us up together,[with Christ] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    This is the regeneration of the Church, collectively, with their Head.

    It is by this regeneration, the elect, who were in Christ when He arose, receive their New Birth.

    1 Pet 1:3

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Now notice this word begotten us again here, its the same word used in Acts 13:33, and peter uses the plural pronoun us, meaning He and all those who rose up with Christ from the dead.

    The NIV translates 1 Pet 1:3 as this:

    Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


    ESV Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    GWT Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! God has given us a new birth because of his great mercy. We have been born into a new life that has a confidence which is alive because Jesus Christ has come back to life

    And so, this is the regeneration of the Church, collectively with Christ's resurrection from the dead, and this sets the stage for each member of that seed in Christ, to be born again individually and experimentally.. This is why they are said to be born from above where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

    Cp Jn 3:3

    3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again[from above], he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Col 3:1

    1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

    To be born again is to be born of that regenerated seed of Christ, where He sitteth on the right hand of God with all of His seed with Him.
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The Washing of Regeneration !

    Titus 3:5

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Now again, the view I have been sharing is making a distinction between regeneration and the new birth or being born again or born from above.

    Regeneration is collectively having to do with all the members of Christ seed, that He is the Head of, The Church, and regeneration occurred when they in Him, were raised up together from the Dead. Eph 2:6 and Isa 26:19.

    As Jesus was begotten from the dead Rev 1:5, so where they, His death to the Law was their death also. Rom 7:4a

    Now, what occurred when Christ died for His seed ? A washing took place. Rev 1:5

    5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    You see that ? Having Loved us and washed us, this is collectively all at once John is speaking of. This washing took place with Christ blood.

    I believe this is the same washing of Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration. The word for washing here is the greek word loutron and means:

    bathing, bath, the act of bathing


    And it's from the root word louō which means:

    to bathe, wash

    And is the same word used in Rev 1:5 for wash.

    Loutron the word in Titus 3:5 is also used for the washing described in Eph 5:26

    26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

    Notice also that the word washing of water by the word. Notice how the word is said to be washing, so this is not water baptism, but its the water of the Word.

    The word water is the same word used in Jn 3:5 and its usage there is primarily in the same subject manner as here.

    Also, it is stated, that after Christ resurrection, that before sitting down at the right hand of the Father, He had what ? Why, He had purified us from our sins. Heb 1:3

    3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

    This again is a corporate or collective purging of all the seed He represented. The word purge is the word katharismos and means:

    cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

    a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

    b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

    c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

    So again, a washing, a cleansing is being emphasized, and because its associated with the removal of guilt, blood must have been involved and redemption.

    So, this is regeneration, and its corporate, and has to do with the cleansing and washing from sin of all the elect seed in Christ, and this sets the stage for the New Birth which I will deal with next.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Gal 3:29
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 9:4.
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Renewing of the Holy Ghost = New Birth

    Titus 3:5

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    After and following and connected with the Regeneration [The washing by the blood of Christ] comes the renewing of the Holy Ghost, or the New Birth. The New Birth of the individual is based on the washing of regeneration or simply put, Christ Blood, they having been purged [legally] from the guilt of their sins that had been laid upon Christ. Let's look again at this purging Heb 1:3

    3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our[collectively] sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

    This word purged is the greek word katharismos and means:

    cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

    a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

    b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

    c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

    Notice that it states, its a expiatory sacrifice. What does that mean ? It means to make amends, to atone, so its related to the atonement.

    The word atonement is used throughout the OT with that Ideal

    Its the word kaphar and it is translated many times as purge:

    Isa 6:7

    7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

    So here its related to having sin taken away !

    Ps 79:9

    9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

    So all those whose sins were purged by the blood of Christ, shall be renewed by the Holy Ghost, which is the New Birth. The word renewing is the greek word anakainōsis and means:

    a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better, Its from a root word which means to make new. To be changed into a new kind of Life.

    You see, because the person has been regenerated, has been forgiven of all legal guilt before God, A New Life which corresponds to their Justification by the blood of Christ, is given them, the New Birth. This New Birth is given to all for whom Christ died and rose again for. Remember Paul said of Him, who was delivered for our offences and raised for our Justification Rom 4:25

    All these shall be Born Again, born from above where Christ sitteth on the Right Hand of God !
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Good grief talk about eisegesis. No not in essence in fact not at all. Couldn't be clearer that you are wrong.
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    More on " Ye must be born again "

    In John 3, Jesus was presenting an analogy, the Spiritual Birth with the earthly or natural birth of a person when He made the statement " Ye must be born again " or another time, and this birth must be from above. The flesh cannot be born over again, but within the Old Man a New Man is born, a New Man is Created as Per Eph 4:24

    And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    This word created is the greek word ktizo and means:

    to create
    of God creating the worlds
    to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform

    This is describing the renewing of the Holy Ghost as per Titus 3:5, which the word renewing means:

    a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better

    So we see in comparing nature and The Spirit, when a natural child is conceived in the mothers womb, there was nothing on the part of the child that could cause it's own generation. It had no ability to command life. It does not choose whom its parents are, neither the time and place of it's birth. Ec 3:1-2

    1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

    Nor does it choose of its individuality and physical biology. The child is altogether passive as the words to be born again denotes. Its in the passive voice. It receives the nature that the parents pass on to it. It receives this life at inception, and so, the Spiritual Birth, the one being born again or from above had nothing to do with his or her spiritual birth any more than they had to do with their natural birth, they receive that spiritual life from a seed implanted within by the Holy Spirit.
     
  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    So for clarification... Are you saying that being born again, is separate from regeneration?... Brother Glen:)
     
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  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You way off. Reread the post because it seems you way off point. Try reading all my posts in the thread, they are linked in thought.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That word is used only twice in the New Testament. And used to refer to two different events. Romans 8 explains.
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 3:29 [NASB95]
    And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
    Mark 9:4 [NASB95] 4
    Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.

    I do not feel particularly enlightened.
    Maybe I am just dense, but I suspect the above exchange is “clear as mud”.
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The New Birth was nothing New !

    The New Birth in and of itself was nothing New for the Children of Faith [OT Saints], it was just at that time a nameless reality, and began to be elaborated in the NT. For Abraham saw this Kingdom of God, which one needs to born again to see, and so did the Patriarch David, hence they were born again or from above. Now this will no doubt come as a shocker to those who are being deceived into believing that water baptism plays a part in being born from above. For who water baptized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or King David ?

    The New Birth is not declared as fact in the OT scriptures but it's blessed effects were made evident in the lives of the those Saints, the Patriarchs, and Gentiles i.e Rahab, Ruth and perhaps Job,I say perhaps with Job because some contend he was a jew, but nevertheless, he was born again.

    Heb 11:13 reads:

    13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Speaking of all the preceding Characters of Faith in vs 4-12, it is stated that they died in Faith having seen the promises afar off. The word seen here is the greek word eidō and it is the same word Jesus uses in Jn 3:3

    3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Thats what they saw or understood, the promises of the Kingdom. James 2:5

    Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

    Those that died in faith in Heb 11, Loved God ! They saw by Faith the Kingdom promised them.

    All of these therefore had been born from above, born of the water and Spirit. If not, they could not have seen or believed or embraced the Promises or the promised Kingdom.

    So the New Birth was not New at all.2
     
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  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Levi was on of the 12 sons of Jacob (later renamed Israel), who was the son of Issac who was the son of Abraham…. thus Levi was of Abraham’s seed.

    The “born again” of John 3 is referring to a spiritual rebirth brought about by God Holy Spirit.

    peace to you
     
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