Can a Christian sin?

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that Bob. (You are saying it and don't know it)
You are suggesting that Christians are perfect--entire sanctification. (never)
I never suggested that sinners are habitual sinners. (I think you mean Christians here, but yet you say we sin all the time)
If you had read the link that I gave you, it says the exact opposite. Why don't you read the information I give you instead of lying about me.[/quote] (I read it and he changed the meanings the same as you, to fit his theology)

There are others who read your remarks of men being liars, so don't call me a liar, when you in fact did say it.

You are the one who continues to say "we are sinners" over and over, That is "habitual". You can't have it both ways, either we are "habitual" sinners and sin everyday, or we are not habitual sinners, but just slip up from time to time and commit a sin, that is not unto death.

You with your doctrine have boxed yourself in a corner to which there is not escape.

BBob,

 

I think there is a difference between sinning every day and living a lifestyle of sin (DHK mentioned this as well). When a believer sins, he/she is convicted, repents, asks forgiveness.

Someone living a sinful lifestyle sins without even realizing it, or if the person knows it's considered sin, they don't care. This is how I was for the most part before being saved. I would do things I knew might be considered wrong, but I rationalized them and did them anyway. I didn't care if it was wrong. I had my own set of standards and ethics. I did things I would not do now.

If I sin now, like I do every day - even being rude to someone at the store, for example, - I feel terrible afterwards! Sometimes I even apologize to the person. If pride prevents me doing that, I go home and feel worse because now I am too proud to apologize on top of being rude! I confess and ask forgiveness. I was not like this before being saved.

A believer recognizes sin, repents, and confesses.

I do think believers can fall into sin and be convicted but ignore it out of rebellion or pride. Eventually, God usually breaks them.

I keep going back to this (or maybe that's on another thread), but 2 Cor. talks about believers who were taken home due to their sin of abusing the Lord's Supper. They were basically having orgies! And they were believers!

 

Where in the world do you get they were having orgies?? That is a new one on me Marcia:.

If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death. We all are going to die naturally anyway. If to die in the Lord is gain, then how can quicken one's natural death be punishment Marcia? Or would it be to keep a Christian from committing a sin unto death? Second death.


Why would sinning every day, not be habitual? Its usually the same sin also. You know that. What would be "habitual" by your definition??

BBob,

 

Habitually denying what the Bible teaches about sin?

 

So, if David had a heart attack before Nathan got to him, he would be in Hell today, right?

 

You tell false when you say I added it to scripture. I added it to you saying to your wife "I dare". Go back and read and then apologize.

BBob,

 

Well, now you are free to go and commit adultery again. Jesus should not of put absolutes in scripture. Now He has been straightened out and Christians are free to commit any sin they want, as long as they don't go too far, which no one really seems to know where that is. I will stand alone, if that is what it takes. I guess "Christlike" does not mean what it says either. Wonder how many other words in scripture that does not mean what they say??

How many times did Judas have to "betray" the Lord??

How many times did the rich man have to turn lazarus away from his table?

BBob,

 

Visiting not the sick because of laziness, but being condemned over it and just plain not caring about the sick ever, Is completely two different things. I doubt if you can see that though.

Mat 25:36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

1Cr 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

How many times are you allowed to commit these actions before becoming one of them??? When does it become "habitual"?

According to your theology, if you did not visit the sick yesterday, you are hell bound, but if you committed adultery, then thats ok, as long as its not "habitual".

Great doctrine.


BBob,

 

You asked me if sinning every day is "habitual" but I have not been using that word. I speak merely of sinning, which every Christian does every day.

I spoke of "practicing sin" and then I defined that in my post as a lifestyle, or sinning with no repentance. So I am not using the phrase "habitual sin" as I think it's muddy.

Am I ever rude again? Unfortunately, yes, but I find I am doing it less and less as time goes on. However, sometimes I want to be rude or start to be rude and stop myself. This is quite a big deal as when I was a new believer, I would be rude with no forethought. In other words, I see a pattern of gradually getting away from it.

This does not include how differently I feel toward people. I felt hatred before I was believer but do not feel hate for anyone now.

My understanding is that the strong rebuke to believers as to how they were abusing the Lord's supper was like an orgy- maybe not a sexual one but a food orgy.

I do not think a believer has the 2nd death, period. One would only believe this if they were Roman Catholic or thought one could lose their salvation.

Brother Bob, are you part of the Holinesss camp (Wesleyan, etc.)? Because that is what it sounds like. The Holiness branches believe that a believer can get to the point of not sinning in this life. If this is what you believe, please tell us.

 

Your statement Bob:
"If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death.
BBob,"
So I ask you again:
If David had a heart attack before Nathan reached him would he be in hell today, according to your beliefs?

 

Bob, the continual misrepresentation of a person's post or words that he has posted is not only deceitful, it, in and of itself is lying. Thus every day you come on this board and you lie. That in and of itself makes you a liar. Your "putting words in my mouth" without documentation, without quotes, without evidence, is lying. Your only response is: "you are saying it and don't know it." That is unacceptable. Don't lie about what I said. If you think I have said something wrong then the onus is on you to prove it, otherwise you have lied in posting it. You do this on a daily basis. You lie on a daily basis.

Yes, If your position is not entire sanctification, it is very close to it.

Your right; that was a typo (a big one). I did mean Christians. And Christians do sin every day.

(I read it and he changed the meanings the same as you, to fit his theology)
He didn't change any meanings. He gave the correct meanings of the verbs. The KJV cannot be so wordy as to translate "cannot sin" to "cannot continually live a habitual lifestyle of sin," in other words, they cannot give the actual sense of the Greek phrase in a couple words. It is our duty to "study to show ourselves approved unto God," and find out what those phrases mean. Jesus said: "Search the Scriptures." He meant it. It is a lame excuse to say: He change the meanings..." when he only clarified them.

It is not me that calls you a liar; it is the Bible. Romans 3:4
"Let God be true; but every man a liar."
Every man (including you) is a liar. That is Biblical truth.

1. It is true, we are all sinners. We sin every day. I have demonstrated this through Scripture which you have conveniently ignored.
2. That doesn't make one a habitual sinner, in that a Christian does not live in one particular lifestyle of sin. A Christian may commit the sin of adultery. But if he lives in that lifestyle, never repenting of it, and keeps doing it over and over, that is what the teaching of 1John 3:8,9 is, when it says: one who is born again cannot sin--does not live a habitual life of sin--such as I just described. It does not eliminate sin altogether.
3. You have a wrong view of a "sin unto death." Only God knows what a sin unto death is. You do not. It may be something as simple as a lie, as was in the case of Annanias and Sapphira. But you have lied many times. So think seriously about that. It is God that decides what a sin unto death is; not man.

 

No, I do not believe Christians commit sins that will keep them out of Heaven, as the world does. I believe a Christian has a different walk than the world and lives a different life style. Certainly not adultery, murder etc. I just believe Christians are a different people from the world and do not go back to that life style.

Marcia; as a Christian, do you believe and live by the following?? Please read closely Marcia, you seem to be a good Christian to me and an honest woman.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 ¶ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

BBob,

 

It is false because you keep saying I added it to scripture and dropped the ? from scripture, which is absolutely false.

Why keep adding to your falsehood??


BBob,

 

I know, but you are not sure how many times a Christian can keep committing adultery.

If I smoke everyday, it is a habit.

If i sin everyday, it is a habit.

Bbob,

 

The "count" is not what matters. The lifestyle matters. Does a person live a lifestyle of adultery not caring about what Christ thinks, about what the church community thinks? Is he slandering the name of Christ in doing so? Was he ever saved in the first place if there is no sign of repentance, no evidence of salvation or a changed life. The evidence of a true believer is a changed life. Committing one sin is not evidence of a changed life. Committing the same sin over and over again, or living in that wicked lifestyle without any change is evidence that his life has not changed. It is habitual--like the world, an indication that he never was saved in the first place.

Many new Christians struggle with addictions. We have a program that helps them overcome addictions. If there is not attempt to overcome addictions it is an evidence that perhaps the believer is not saved. If the believer never wanted to give up cocaine, would he be a believer? A true believer would want to give up addictions.
"All things are lawful unto me. But all things are not expedient. All things are lawful for me; But I will not be brought under the power of any."
"I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me."

Not true. We have a sin nature. We are not Jesus Christ, the perfect sinless Son of God. Only He is sinless. Only He is perfect. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we sin every day, it doesn't mean it is habitual. It may be different sins every day. But lying is common, along with temper, coveting, and many other sins that we don't even realize including our thought life.
Sins of omission are some of the most common--the time we spend with God in prayer, in the Word, in witnessing, in fellowship with other believers.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
--There is a definition of pure religion. Do we do that every day?
--Sins of omission are very common.

 

Yes, I believe these and I attempt to live by them by the power of the Holy Spirit. But since I am not perfect, I do fail, so I do sin.

What should be seen with a believer, which is not seen with an unbeliever, is a pattern of less sinning, more conviction when sinning (which only the person can "see"), avoidance of places or situations that are likely to lead to sin or are promoting sin, and confession and repentance of sin.

We do not become perfect the moment we are saved. We are justified and made new, absolutely. But our fallen nature is still there and we struggle with that. However, salvation frees us from the bondage to sin, which means we do have the power to resist sin whereas we did not before. But this does not mean we never sin again.