1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Very sad commentary on the church today

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    .............At the recent annual Beeson Pastors School, Selles led two workshops to discuss, “Whatever happened to hell?” He asked how many of the pastors had ever preached a sermon on hell. Nobody had, he said.

    “I think it’s something people want to avoid,” he said. “I understand why. It’s a difficult topic.”

    Fred Johns, pastor of Brookview Wesleyan Church in Irondale, Ala., said after a workshop discussion of hell that pastors do shy away from the topic of everlasting damnation.

    “It’s out of fear we’ll not appear relevant,” he said. “It’s pressure from the culture to not speak anything negative. I think we’ve begun to deny hell. There’s an assumption that everybody’s going to make it to heaven somehow.”

    The soft sell on hell reflects an increasingly market-conscious approach, Selles said.

    “When you’re trying to market Jesus, sometimes there’s a tendency to mute traditional Christian symbols,” he said. “Difficult doctrines are left by the wayside. Hell is a morally repugnant doctrine. People wonder why God would send people to eternal punishment.”

    Speakers said the seriousness of Jesus dying for man’s sins relates to the gravity of salvation versus damnation, according to Johns.

    “If you don’t mention God’s judgment, you are missing a big part of the Christian gospel,” Selles said. “Without wrath, there’s no grace.”.

    More Here
     
  2. grainofwheat

    grainofwheat New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is my guess a lot of pastors are afraid of "offending" the faithful and losing numbers including the largest financial contributors.

    It is a shame that the church in America has so many "professional" pastors that rely on the giving of the flock for their livelihood.
    A pastor that provides his own financial support is less likely afraid to preach about hell and other social evils in the church and in the world.

    Most "church going" Americans want a feel good sermon on Sunday and then go home and live their lives as they desire the rest of the week.

    What in the "world" is wrong with the church in America ???

    It closely resembles the world.
     
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    I know I have never preached a sermon on hell. There is no doubt, however, that hell has come up in many sermons. I don't see how one can avoid the topic of hell anymore than one can avoid the evils of this life when speaking of living for the Lord.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Professional Pastors" has nothing to do with it. In fact the pastor should be taken care of by the church per scripture (1 Tim 5:17). And any pastor that is afraid to lose his job is not worthy of the calling. The resolution to pastor not preaching on hell or pastors afraid to lose their "job" is not an outside job. The resolution is to rely on God for provisions rather than people and just do what you were called to do(2 Tim 4:1-4).
     
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hell is not politically correct. Also most people only know Matt 7:1 - "Judge not least ye be judge"
     
    #5 Salty, Aug 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2009
  6. BigBossman

    BigBossman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I've seemed to notice more preaching on salvation, but not about the consequences of refusing it. People don't like being told they are going to Hell if they don't accept Christ as their Savior, but regardless, I think it has to be mentioned. I think others see this as a scare tactic to get others to accept Christ, but I don't see it that way. I look at it as truth. The truth isn't always pleasant, but it has to be spoken.
     
  7. grainofwheat

    grainofwheat New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    With your statement then I guess Sunday School Teachers should be paid also.
    A S/S teacher labors in the word and doctrine, especially if they are truly serving Jesus.
    [ 1 TIM 5:17 ]

    Apostle Paul WORKED as a tentmaker in Corinth with Aquila and Priscilla.
    [Acts 18:1-3]
    This is Biblical example of Missionaries/Pastors/Teachers WORKING for their keep.I think Paul set a good example for all who followed him.
     
  8. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    18,441
    Likes Received:
    259
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    But it can't be all honey. The gospel is an offense - people do not want to hear about sin or that they are accountable to a righteous God. Who wants to hear that?

    Jesus did not shy away from things like this.
     
  10. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Paul was not always working. As a matter of fact Paul said in 1 Cor 9:6-12:
    But Paul did not take from 'them' becasue of their spiritual immaturity in the matter and his care was not about his physical gain or prosperity but their spiritual growth. However let it be remembered that he did receive finacial aide from other churches to help in his finacial need out there and Paul does state this little bit of rebuke later on concerning this very matter 2 Cor 11:7-9:
    2
    So Paul's example is that he has the right to be paid but chose not to be for their spiritual benifit, BUT he received from other churches 'wages' to help him while he was there (he said 'robbing') till that particular church grew up enough spiritualy to willingly pay the minister of the gospel.
     
  11. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    78
    A fly can drown in honey too. If you aren't preaching the consequences of sin, people don't know what they need saving from. Without knowing the consequence of sin there is no salvation.
     
  12. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,135
    Likes Received:
    117
    Therefore knowing the TERROR OF THE LORD we PERSUADE men to be reconciled! :praying:
     
  13. grainofwheat

    grainofwheat New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0

    Notice verses 6/12/18 in 1 COR 9 :1-18.
    Paul acknowledges the right to earn money from his labor in the gospel but STILL WORKS. He received money [support] from other churches but still WORKED in Corinth.[Acts 18:1-3]

    We have rights and can choose not to exercise them to advance a cause and in this case advance the Gospel.
    Sunday School teachers do this every week around the world when they present the gospel without charge.
     
    #13 grainofwheat, Aug 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2009
  14. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    It's not about honey or vinegar. The idea is preach the whole counsel of God's word. And, when it some will be offended, some want care, but some will be saved.
     
  15. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hell isn't the only thing folks don't want to hear about in the church. People don't want to hear about giving. They don't want to hear about soul winning. They don't want to hear about service in the church. They don't want to hear about personal and cooperate responsibility.
     
  16. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    1
    I recall A.W. Tozer said, something to the effect, that it was a shame when the pew tell the pulpit what to preach and the pulpit is to afraid of losing his job, so he goes along.

    A lot of members do not want to hear about hell.

    My brother in law who lives around Murray, Ky. and he is around 58 years old and a deacon in his church and he never knew hell was foe ever. He has never heard much about hell in church and he has been in Baptist churches most of his life. He now has done a good study on it (about 8 years ago) and knows much about it.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hmm, Kentucky and he is a deacon in a Baptist church?

    Is it a Primitive Baptist church? There are many in the Appalachians.

    There is a PBC group called the "no-hellers (which is a misnomer)" who, though they don't deny the reality of hell, do not believe it is forever:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Baptist_Universalist


    HankD
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    That is because he has a job called ministry and not Jesus as Lord.
     
  19. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    What????????
     
  20. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    It's not about honey or vinegar. The idea is preach the whole counsel of God's word. And, when it some will be offended, some want care, but some will be saved.

    Allow me to correct post #15: It's not about honey or vinegar. The idea is to preach the whole counsel of God' word. When it is preached, some will be offended, some won't care, but most importantly, some will be saved.
     
Loading...