It's that time of year again . . .

[tinytim]

...and where did I call anyone a liar (your accusation) there?

Liar may be a little strong for you Web, because I know your heart for God, and you would never do that intentionally.. but you did say, and I am bolding the part questionable...

I see no purpose in hunting in this age. Meat and food are available every mile in the US. To claim it is done for the meat alone is an excuse, IMO to cover up the thrill of killing an animal unnecessarily.

Around here, the old timers have a saying that "An excuse is the outer covering of a lie"..

So when some hear you say, "you are making excuses" it seems you are calling them a liar.

Does that make sense?

 

[webdog]

I did say it was my opinion, did I not? Since when did someone having an opinion constitute calling someone a liar?

Mexdeaf, you need Scripture stating we should not kill something for fun? As a believer?

 

[Revmitchell]

I did say it was my opinion, did I not? Since when did someone having an opinion constitute calling someone a liar?

Sorry but trying to go back and characterize your words as an opinion has no effect on the nature of your words. Opinion or otherwise you insinuated that they were liars.

 

[webdog]

I can see how much fun this really is, now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XpS3oZYMEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vddh0zOTWws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1DxV20_IG4

 

[webdog]

My opinion has been backed in these last couple pages by those saying "yes!" killing for sport is moral, hence my opinion has been validated, hence I did not call anyone a liar.

 

[tinytim]

Tim, nobody is playing God...and you here admit killing for the sheer enjoyment of fun is moral. I'm sure you can provide the Scripture Benjamin could not.

OK, I think I may have this figured out... and this whole debate is centered on what our definition of "enjoyment", "Thrill", and "fun"

And since I can only give you my perspective, I will share it with you.

The basis of each of those words is "Pleasure", right?

We describe events with those three words that give us pleasure...

So let's look at how the killing of an animal gives humans pleasure.

First of all we will look at hunters..
It is pleasurable to get out into nature
It is pleasurable to have bonds with your fellowman
It is pleasurable to actually "hunt"... the act of finding the animal
It is pleasurable to succeed in the hunt... the actual killing (Which may be the only aspect so far that is troubling you, right?)
It is pleasurable to eat the meat... (Can't eat the meat without killing the animal)
It is pleasurable to retell the story of the hunt because of the different aspects of the hunt (for instance, read one of my former posts about my first squirrel hunt with dad... to me, every dad should do something like that with their sons... and in this culture, WV, this is what we do. Also mounting the animal or making a rug, falls under this for it then becomes a talking piece allowing us to talk about the hunt, and raise the fond memories)


NOW...Non hunters who are not vegans are no different... although you can give me examples of every one except one, of the above by not killing the animals, It is impossible for you to enjoy, get a thrill, or take pleasure in a meal that includes meat unless SOMEONE Kills the animal you are about to partake in.

So let's say it is a sin to enjoy killing an animal... then this verse would apply to non-hunters who eat meat...

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Again, it is impossible to get pleasure from steak, ribs, hamburgers, or any meat unless the animal is killed.. So if it is a sin to get pleasure from killing an animal, it is equally a sin by enjoying the benefits of the kill.

So put down that knife, and step away from the Steak!

BTW... I have pork ribs baking... gonna BBQ them on this rainy fall day... and I am going to enjoy them tremendously, and will be thrilled by the way they taste... and I am not going to feel one bit sorry for the pig that was killed for me to do so.

 

[Revmitchell]

My opinion has been backed in these last couple pages by those saying "yes!" killing for sport is moral, hence my opinion has been validated, hence I did not call anyone a liar.

Nothing to do with it, you said:

"To claim it is done for the meat alone is an excuse"


That is calling them liars no matter how you spin it.But it is your conscience you have to live with good luck.

 

[Johnv]

Of course that is wrong... that would be on the same level as the illustration I used before... shooting a deer in a leg just to see it suffer....

A good hunter takes the best shot possible to kill the deer instantly, not torture it.

Just like I will swat a fly to kill it instantly, not catch it and torture it.

Good thoughts. I think you said it best. Is there anyone here who would disagree with that?

 

[tinytim]

Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Hmmm... God commanding a human to KILL.

 

[webdog]

For some reason I can't reply via quote today.

Rev, get a clue. It is in no way calling anyone a liar. It is my opinion those who hunt for fun are not starving and have food available wherever they may live. If you needed to hunt for food you wouldn't take only one shot. The "sport" is to see if you can kill the animal in one.

I don't believe in luck, btw.

 

[tinytim]

Good thoughts. I think you said it best. Is there anyone here who would disagree with that?

There is a difference between killing the animal, and torturing it.
For instance I live in Poultry country, one of our main industries is Pilgrims Pride Chicken processing plant.

Killing the chickens for human consumption is not wrong.
But slamming them against the wall before the kill is.

And it is the same with hunting.. killing the animal is not a sin., but torturing it on purpose is.

The pleasure is not in the actual killing.. but in a hunt well done.
Just like working at the chicken plant, the pleasure is not in the killing, but in a job well done... and a paycheck.
Or for those of you that only get your meat from a grocery store.. your pleasure is not in the killing, but the fact that it tastes good, and you are able to put meat on your table for your family.

 

[webdog]

Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Hmmm... God commanding a human to KILL.

...for food. Context.

 

[rbell]

Tim, nobody is playing God...and you here admit killing for the sheer enjoyment of fun is moral. I'm sure you can provide the Scripture Benjamin could not.

Problem is, neither you nor Aaron will accept anyone's rationale for hunting.

In other words, you're saying "killing an animal for the fun of it is wrong...and it's not possible to go hunting unless you enjoy killing animals."

Circular reasoning.

And if people sincerely have an issue here, it would seem that they would need to be vegan in their practices...because someone, somewhere might enjoy killing the animal that made it onto your plate.

 

[rbell]

...for food. Context.

But you don't accept anyone saying that they're hunting for food, so we can't win.

 

[rbell]

point of clarification here:

I do not hunt for trophies. I eat what I take...both hunting and fishing. I never catch more than my family can use...with the exception of when I give my catch to our church custodian, who can use the free food. I would never kill an animal simply to mount it on my wall.

I feel perfectly fine with the consistency of my position.

 

[webdog]

Problem is, neither you nor Aaron will accept anyone's rationale for hunting.

In other words, you're saying "killing an animal for the fun of it is wrong...and it's not possible to go hunting unless you enjoy killing animals."

Circular reasoning.

And if people sincerely have an issue here, it would seem that they would need to be vegan in their practices...because someone, somewhere might enjoy killing the animal that made it onto your plate.

It is not circular. There are many reasons given why huting is enjoyable (outdoors, being with friends, getting meat, etc.) but those things can all be done outside of killing an animal while hunting. The bottom line is (and has been supported here) the heartrate goes up when the animal near, it is in the crosshairs and the trigger is pulled. That is the culmination of the experience, the other things go along for the ride. In the one video I posted the person whispered "YES" as they saw the buck stumbe 40, 50 yards and begin to wobble. That is the thrill of death, not the thrill of being in nature, with buddies, etc.

 

[webdog]

But you don't accept anyone saying that they're hunting for food, so we can't win.

And probably for the eleventh time, I have never said that. Please follow along, it's getting real old to have to keep reiterating that.

 

[webdog]

point of clarification here:

I do not hunt for trophies. I eat what I take...both hunting and fishing. I never catch more than my family can use...with the exception of when I give my catch to our church custodian, who can use the free food. I would never kill an animal simply to mount it on my wall.

I feel perfectly fine with the consistency of my position.

Benjamin has stated on this thread it's perfectly acceptable to hunt for nothing more than a rug in front of the fireplace, that animals are here for our enjoyment to do with as we want.

 

[matt wade]

When I find a snake in my back yard, I enjoy killing it and don't plan on eating it. In fact, after I kill the snake I go inside and tell my wife how proud of me she should be. Oh, doesn't matter if it is poisonous or not...only good snake is a dead snake. Guess I'm a low down sinner .

 

[Benjamin]

Benjamin has stated on this thread it's perfectly acceptable to hunt for nothing more than a rug in front of the fireplace, that animals are here for our enjoyment to do with as we want.

...if responsible, that would be a condition; and this was addressed in "dominion" and supported with scripture. Yet, ignored same as all other credible reasonings that go against your world taught sentiments.

Like I thought...nothing.

Your logic in this argument would be atrocious if it weren’t so pathetic that I have to sympathize with your childlike reliance on things such as this negative proof fallacy (which was addressed) to keep your argument alive, …and your gloating over it and continuing in it…add circular reasoning, subjectivist fallacy, anything to continue in your unfounded rationalizations and doing so while dispersing accusations, even denying your own accusations. Yeah, this is worth debating with you…not.

Hmm, wonder if it would help to give scripture how to deal with one who argues like you and casts such accusations…nah…that would be a end up being a reportable personal attack wouldn’t it? This reminds me of a kid who when he couldn’t get his way in the neighborhood that we used to call the “Fire-Engine” …ah, never mind, I digress. :BangHead: