The only thing "building" every day is the hate for Dr. Caner. The story is what it is and no more.
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Ergun Caner controversy
- Thread starter Dale-c
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Caner & LU are botching this. Smartest thing he could do is come out and admit it all in a "drop 'em" (for those unaware, a press conference where you answer every possible question...even if it takes hours...to let the press pound away until they run out of questions). Then move on. The longer this goes, the more unlikely this is to happen and the less effective it would be.
Liberty has gotten burned in the past. Daryl Gilyard is one example. The cult of personality is alive and well. The sad thing is that people out here know the real deal. Ergun knows people know the real deal. The fact that they aren't coming clean says a whole lot.
It is unfortunate that perception is that Reform minded folks are anti Caner and that non-Reformers are pro-Caner. This should be about integrity, pure and simple.
Liberty has gotten burned in the past. Daryl Gilyard is one example. The cult of personality is alive and well. The sad thing is that people out here know the real deal. Ergun knows people know the real deal. The fact that they aren't coming clean says a whole lot.
It is unfortunate that perception is that Reform minded folks are anti Caner and that non-Reformers are pro-Caner. This should be about integrity, pure and simple.
So what do folks here think? According to Elmer Towns what Ergun Caner has done :"It's not an ethical issue,it's not a moral issue. We give faculty a certain amount of theological leverage."
I wouldn't either. Here where I work, accusations are flung at us all the time, and we are not respond to them at all, it lowers us to their level.
Same with Caner. I took a class from him through Liberty Online and he
is EXCELLENT and very accurate and knowledgable.
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Caner's own words and actions have done him in. Bloggers have just documented Ergun's recorded serial lying.
That's good to hear -- but it has nothing to do with the issue-at-hand.
To say the least -- he has not been very accurate about his background.
dcorbett, have you actually looked into any of the documentation?
Can you explain any of these contradictions?
Can you explain how Dr. Caner watched the Dukes of Hazzard a few years before it ever aired on American TV? Or perhaps it was run in Muslim countries and we just got the reruns in the US?
Or about how that he claims to have come to the US as a teenager but his parents divorce records show that he was much younger?
What about the fact that he has no trace of an accent yet claims to have had very poor english late into his teens?
THe man has either lied, or there is some complex answer to these blatant contradictions.
Caner is not God. He does not get to "speak and it is so" he is to be held to the same standard of honesty as the rest of us.
Oh, and Caner is a very talented public speaker. No one here is disputing that.
It is just sad that he has to embellish his stories like he does.
Can you respond to any of these claims?
Can you explain any of them?
Can you explain any of these contradictions?
Can you explain how Dr. Caner watched the Dukes of Hazzard a few years before it ever aired on American TV? Or perhaps it was run in Muslim countries and we just got the reruns in the US?
Or about how that he claims to have come to the US as a teenager but his parents divorce records show that he was much younger?
What about the fact that he has no trace of an accent yet claims to have had very poor english late into his teens?
THe man has either lied, or there is some complex answer to these blatant contradictions.
Caner is not God. He does not get to "speak and it is so" he is to be held to the same standard of honesty as the rest of us.
Oh, and Caner is a very talented public speaker. No one here is disputing that.
It is just sad that he has to embellish his stories like he does.
Can you respond to any of these claims?
Can you explain any of them?
I am not pro-Caner and I never ever saw a reason to reform what the scripture says, so I guess that statement is not accurate.
I see the problem as reform minded folks are anti Caner because he is not reformed instead of trying to bring him in from err. We are often guilty of doing the right things for the wrong reasons.
I think Caner should resign to keep from hurting LU further than he already has.
I know many non reformers who feel this way. Of course non reformers also understand that we should not follow anyone but Jesus Christ.
This is a prime example of the saying "The Christian Army is the only Army that shoots it's wounded."
No, you are completely wrong. His litany of lies is what brought him into trouble and disrepute.
Well make up your mind. Why should he resign if it's just an issue of Calvinists having an anti-Calvinistc bias against Caner? If you think he should resign then the real issue is far different and greater.
Judgment starts with the House of God. If an individual can't recognize his sin the larger Christian community must address the situation. The world is watching.
I have to go. More later.
I have returned.Sorry about the interruption.
Dr.Caner is one lone individual, but his sins have affected multitudes of people both saved and unregenerate. Liberty seminary, and by extension Liberty University, are involved, or rather complicit, in this whole mess. As I said, the world is watching. Should Caner slide on this? Should we cut him some slack? Are we making a mountain out of a mole-hill? Is this a tempest in a tea-pot?
The unregenerate world will offer no forgiveness in this matter. They are convinced that celebrities such as Caner are given a pass by fellow Christians. Honesty is not something that Christians must value they might conclude.
If Caner and Liberty continue the cover-up of this sorry affair before the Christian community then watch and see what the non-Christian world has in store. The Lord might even use the unsaved to carry out His will for Caner's judgment.
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Bitsy, thanks so much for the clips. I have had the opportunity to watch both in their entirety and they are so humourous -- because this guy nails him. I don't mean just with impersonating him -- but with the clownishness of Caner. You'd have to be somewhat familiar with Ergun to pick up on the satire. But this guy is excellent!
I just love it when he rebukes 'Charles' with "I'm gonna' talk with you boy!"'Charles' has mistakenly played conflicting recordings of Caner saying with one side of his mouth that he was born in Sweden and with the other in Turkey.
But Rip, some of you might be thinking, "This guy in the spoofs is a fraud!" Hmm, a phony fraud imitating an authentic fraud.
An actual excerpt of Caner's "exposition" of Romans 9 sermon is included.It just blows the socks off those nasty Calvinists.:laugh:
As I watched the video I wondered if he replaced Robert Tilton. He could have easily posted a copy of his birth certificate.
Whichyoutalkin'bout Willis?
Please stay-on-subject. We're not talking about Obama. Someone told you how off you were on this a number of pages back. I guess you weren't listening.
You obviously are wrong, I did not change my mind and I stated exactly what I meant. Just because the wrong reason has the same result as the right reason, does not mean the wrong reason is right.
I even typed this a little slower so maybe it could be understood.
Well the Parody Guy (PG)has made a total of four spoofs so far. I think the first two are the best.
I'll give some snips.In Program #1 PG says;"If you don't like my new bio or if you can't follow the latest timeline of my life. If you didn't read my concession speech before I deleted it. If you're good at public records -- Or if you're just someone who likes James White. I say :Boo-Hoo! Boo-Hoo! That's what I say. And I'll tell you you can look up on the internet www.idon'tcare.com This is my bubble.I like living in it.Stay out of it!"
PG also tosses some remarks such as "I don't say it because it's true." And :"They [Caner's foes] want to focus on the discrepancies."
In Program #2 PG says :"I tell people that I'm neither a Calvinist nor am I an Arminian. I'm a Baptist. And that makes perfect sense."
Then an excerpt of a rant, er,ah sermon, on Romans 9 delivered by Caner is aired. I got a kick looking at PG when Caner is saying:"I'm gonna be standing on my hands. Standing on top of my feet."
PG says :"This [sermon] is an example of exegiting from the text.Disproving the calvinists.Going right into Romans 9 without fear. Working with the text. Exegiting the text in support of mans' free will.Puttin' the Calvinists to shame -- Amen? We handle the text. There is nothing confusing here. it's not hard. There is no wiggle-room here for the Calvinists as I have just demonstrated."
==I took a class with him and I have seen him preach in person. He was a good teacher and speaker. However none of that has anything to do with the issue at hand. These are not random accusations being fired at Dr. Caner. No, these are documented contradictions in his public preaching about his childhood. This is important because he has built an image of himself as a former Muslim who converted to Christianity and now has this wonderful testimony to tell. It is clear, from the historical record, that he is grossly exaggerated his background. As James White has rightly said, "the Ergun Caner of history and the Ergun Caner presented by the current President of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary who grew up in Turkey thinking Christians hated him are two very different people. One of them existed, and we can prove it. The other, sadly, only seems to exist any longer in the mind of one lonely man in Lynchburg. Let us pray he will drop the pretense and confess the truth." (LINK).
There is no excuse for Dr. Caner's behavior. The only solution is for him to repent of his sin.
http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/05/who-is-dr-ergun-caner.html
http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/03/ergun-caners-secret-biography.html
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I am truly disappointed in Dr. Caner and LU's initial response. Elmer Towns is an embarrassment to the university for stating that Dr. Caner did not do anything immoral or unethical.
Dr. Caner did apologize on the internet, but then nullified it by saying he never intentionally misled anyone.
But the evidence from his own mouth says differently. Watching him speak from the videos on the internet proves that he said the following:
I was born in Istanbul, Turkey. He was not.
I was raised near the Turkey/Iran border. He was not.
I came to America in 1978. He did not.
I came to America through Brooklyn at age 13. He did not.
I learned English by watching the Dukes of Hazard. He did not.
I spoke broken English. He did not.
I debated a specific Muslim in Nebraska. He did not.
I have debated Muslim leaders. He has not.
I have debated religious leaders of other religions. He has not.
His falsehoods revolve around three areas: when he came to America, where he was raised, and who he debated. This is not complicated. He has intentionally misled others in these three areas. The true facts are as follows:
He was born in Sweden in 1966.
He came to America before 1970.
He was raised in Columbus, Ohio.
He was educated in America.
He spoke fluent English.
His mother was Lutheran.
His father was Muslim.
His parents divorced when he was nine.
He was raised Muslim.
His father was active in a mosque.
He came to Christ around age 15.
His father disowned him.
He attended evangelical colleges and seminaries.
He had evangelistic encounters with people from other religions.
LU has taken action. They have corrected Ergun Caner's bio. They have removed the inaccuracies. They removed when he came to America, mention of Turkey, and mention of his numerous debates in 40 states and 13 countries. They are investigating his background. But their previous statement by Towns is more embarrassing then Caner's falsehoods.
Dr. Caner at the very least needs to apologize. He needs to state clearly and unequivocally that he misrepresented his background. We may assume that he did so to capitalize on his Muslim background in the wake of 9/11. The evidence is that E. Michael Caner became Ergun Mehmet Caner after 9/11.
The sad truth is that his actual testimony was sufficient enough. He could have said that being raised by a devout Sunni Muslim father gave him a unique perspective on the mind of the Muslim terrorists and indoctrination. He didn't have to lie. That is what is so sad.
Dr. Caner did apologize on the internet, but then nullified it by saying he never intentionally misled anyone.
But the evidence from his own mouth says differently. Watching him speak from the videos on the internet proves that he said the following:
I was born in Istanbul, Turkey. He was not.
I was raised near the Turkey/Iran border. He was not.
I came to America in 1978. He did not.
I came to America through Brooklyn at age 13. He did not.
I learned English by watching the Dukes of Hazard. He did not.
I spoke broken English. He did not.
I debated a specific Muslim in Nebraska. He did not.
I have debated Muslim leaders. He has not.
I have debated religious leaders of other religions. He has not.
His falsehoods revolve around three areas: when he came to America, where he was raised, and who he debated. This is not complicated. He has intentionally misled others in these three areas. The true facts are as follows:
He was born in Sweden in 1966.
He came to America before 1970.
He was raised in Columbus, Ohio.
He was educated in America.
He spoke fluent English.
His mother was Lutheran.
His father was Muslim.
His parents divorced when he was nine.
He was raised Muslim.
His father was active in a mosque.
He came to Christ around age 15.
His father disowned him.
He attended evangelical colleges and seminaries.
He had evangelistic encounters with people from other religions.
LU has taken action. They have corrected Ergun Caner's bio. They have removed the inaccuracies. They removed when he came to America, mention of Turkey, and mention of his numerous debates in 40 states and 13 countries. They are investigating his background. But their previous statement by Towns is more embarrassing then Caner's falsehoods.
Dr. Caner at the very least needs to apologize. He needs to state clearly and unequivocally that he misrepresented his background. We may assume that he did so to capitalize on his Muslim background in the wake of 9/11. The evidence is that E. Michael Caner became Ergun Mehmet Caner after 9/11.
The sad truth is that his actual testimony was sufficient enough. He could have said that being raised by a devout Sunni Muslim father gave him a unique perspective on the mind of the Muslim terrorists and indoctrination. He didn't have to lie. That is what is so sad.
Do you mean damage control or seeking the truth?
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Ok, I watched a few minutes of the above video. How or why this guy heads up a seminary is beyond me. "This is my bubble, stay out of it." and "Boo-hoo boo-hoo" Really?
No he isn't... I took multiple courses online with him and he flings so much more bravado than information I am not sure how one can discern the level of information being offered. He blatantly misrepresented a theology that he (and I) disagree with in a contemporary theology course. Worse than that, he blatantly misrepresented a man (my former pastor) who is a major proponent of that view.
I know the man and the view and he was WAY off. (open theism) I questioned his integrity then but no one was interested it seems until James White called him on his wild exaggerations and lies.
I am a Liberty alumni and I am glad that most folks I know don't know much about this. It is embarrassing.
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