DOJ: Arizona Immigration Law Must Be 'Struck Down'

[targus]

I see that you are left with nothing but a personal attack.

Not at all.

The subject of the statement was your silly arguement - not you.

 

[KenH]

I made the statement that you called "silly". Therefore, you were attacking me personally. But I forgive you, brother.

 

[Dragoon68]

Of course, you say that. The saliency of the comparison destroys the argument of the pro-Arizona law crowd.

You don't make a very convincing case, KenH, but rather have just thrown out some silly point - and that's exactly what it is - and then just repeated it a few times. It's not even relevant!

Arizona hasn't created a new set of immigration laws, nor an agency to regulate it, nor a judicial process to hear cases about it. Arizona has merely decided to handover illegal aliens to the federal government that it comes across - after verification by the proper status verification by federal authorities - in the course of its State and local law enforcement activities.

Read the Arizona law to better understand what they've done.

 

[KenH]

Naturalization laws are a federal prerogative according to the U.S. constitution and I think that the U.S. Supreme Court will so rule.

 

[KenH]

You don't make a very convincing case, KenH

Neither do you, Dragoon68.

 

[Jedi Knight]

I agree. Let's fix the federal government, not ignore the U.S. constitution.

Do you think if someone is breaking into you home and you call the police and get "sorry sir,but their busy having coffee and doughnuts",do you just wait it out..... being in danger??

 

[Dragoon68]

Neither do you, Dragoon68.

Read the Arizona law! They made a very convincing case.

 

[KenH]

Do you think if someone is breaking into you home and you call the police and get "sorry sir,but their busy having coffee and doughnuts",do you just wait it out..... being in danger??

I have the right to defend my house. A state does not have the right to decide who is a citizen or a legal resident of the United States.

 

[targus]

Naturalization laws are a federal prerogative according to the U.S. constitution and I think that the U.S. Supreme Court will so rule.

Arizona is not writing naturalization laws.

They are merely enforcing the Federal naturalization laws already on the books.

 

[KenH]

They are merely enforcing the Federal naturalization laws already on the books.

A federal law is to be enforced by federal officials. State officials can only assist under the auspices of the federal officials.

 

[targus]

A federal law is to be enforced by federal officials. State officials can only assist under the auspices of the federal officials.

Arizona wants to identify illegals and then turn them over to the Feds.

You do not agree with them doing that?

 

[KenH]

You do not agree with them doing that?

No, I do not, unless Arizona officials do so under the supervision of federal officials.

 

[Ruiz]

Naturalization laws are a federal prerogative according to the U.S. constitution and I think that the U.S. Supreme Court will so rule.

Ken,

This lawsuit is not about naturalization laws. In fact, the Arizona law goes out of it's way to ensure that all naturalization laws are placed solely in the hands of the Feds. Their law merely enforces aspects of the immigration laws. For that, states have always had a role to play in such enforcement. Several times throughout the law they cite the federal immigration law and maintain they are enforcing that law. My contention with the Arizona law is not that they are overstepping their bounds into naturalization issues, my issue is that they are violating the 4th Amendment.

 

[billreber]

KenH said:

I have the right to defend my house. A state does not have the right to decide who is a citizen or a legal resident of the United States.

But the state of Arizona is NOT deciding who is a citizen or a legal resident of the United States. They are simply identifying those who are suspected to NOT be citizens/legal residents (when said suspects are caught doing something else illegally) and turning said suspects over to the correct Federal officers, for the Federal officers to deal with the question of whether the suspects are illegal immigrants.

Would it be okay for me to take into custody a person who is robbing my house, and then turning them over to my local police for the correct legal proceedings? YOU BET IT WOULD, (although probably dangerous). This is what Arizona is trying to do with suspected ILLEGAL immigrants..

Sounds like a great and Constitutional law to me!

Bill :godisgood:

 

[Ruiz]

BTW, the issue about the whether Arizona is regulating immigration is discussed here by the author of the law.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4274425/doj-lawsuit-on-very-thin-ice/

 

[KenH]

Would it be okay for me to take into custody a person who is robbing my house, and then turning them over to my local police for the correct legal proceedings? YOU BET IT WOULD, (although probably dangerous). This is what Arizona is trying to do with suspected ILLEGAL immigrants..

On what basis is Arizona gonna do this? It is rather obvious when someone is robbing a person's house. What is going to be the obvious basis for Arizona to do this?

 

[targus]

No, I do not, unless Arizona officials do so under the supervision of federal officials.

So when an illegal alien runs a red light and an Arizona police officer asks for a driver's license and the illegal alien can not produce one - and the officer determines that the driver is an illegal alien...

Should they let him go because there was not a federal offical present to supervise?

 

[KenH]

This lawsuit is not about naturalization laws....my issue is that they are violating the 4th Amendment.

The whole issue is about who is here naturally or alienly. And, yes, the 4th amendment will have to be pretty much throw out the window for Arizona to do what it proposes to do.

 

[Jedi Knight]

I have the right to defend my house. A state does not have the right to decide who is a citizen or a legal resident of the United States.

And Arizona has the right to be protected by the federal government. But guess what?

 

[KenH]

So when an illegal alien runs a red light and an Arizona police officer asks for a driver's license and the illegal alien can not produce one - and the officer determines that the driver is an illegal alien...

Should they let him go because there was not a federal offical present to supervise?

Driving without a valid license does not indicate legal status or lack thereof. So how is officer going to know if he is a legal resident or not? This not the old Eastern Europe or the old Soviet Union. We do not have to present papers in this country to be where we are.