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Are angels humans from the future?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mark_13, Feb 5, 2012.

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  1. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    preacher4truth - I didn't see further down in Nehemiah 9:6 where it talks about them bowing down. The commentary I was looking at used the NIV which says starry hosts, and so I assumed the commentary must be comfortable with that, but then they say its probably talking about angels. But even in Psalms 148 quoted by freeatlast, it talks about all sorts of seemingly inanimate things as well as animals praising God, along with men (which parenthetically has deep significance to me as it implies that man himself is fundamentally connected to all of nature and that even things like the sun and moon can praise God in some sense directly comparable to how man can.) As I said, even if Nehemiah is talking about angels it does not say they were always just angels.

    --------------
    Just to briefly clarify one comment above (though not related to thread), I think Psa 148 is implying, certainly not that the sun or moon, sleet hail, and so forth have sentience, but rather they have things that they do, some of them quite complex, just as humans do their own complex things. And all these disparate elements of nature, man included, have complex behaviors that equate to praise for God - man is a part of all that - not apart from it.
     
    #61 Mark_13, Feb 6, 2012
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  2. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    Upon further reflection, maybe Psalms 148 does imply some distinction between angels and humans as it goes through all these disparate aspects of the creation, including angels and humans, and it never says angels and humans are connected which maybe it would if they were.

    Thanks for all the feedback from everyone - I'll consider it.
     
    #62 Mark_13, Feb 6, 2012
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Men are going to judge angels....they are two different groups.

    bodily resurrection happens on the last day....
     
    #63 Iconoclast, Feb 6, 2012
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  4. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    You.....citing someone else for being "petty".??????
     
    #64 quantumfaith, Feb 6, 2012
  5. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
    Where does it say that the sun was created as the sun, or the moon as the moon, or dogs as dogs, or horses as horses, and on and on?
     
    #65 freeatlast, Feb 6, 2012
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  6. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    The sun was previously a cloud of gas that compressed under the force of gravity and as a result of the increasing pressure and heat it ignited. That cloud of gas from which the sun formed was previously another star that supernovaed.

    The moon was previously a part of the earth and was dislodged after earth was hit by another planet in the early solar system.

    Dogs were previously wolves.

    Horses were previously proto-horses.

    Things tend to emerge via a process that extends over time, in which things go through different stages of being.

    Whatever humans will be ultimately, after the resurrection, will not be what they were created as. They were created as normal human beings. The only question is, will what we will be ultimately be greater than angels are essentially comparable to angels. My money now is on the former, but it doesn't go without saying.
     
    #66 Mark_13, Feb 6, 2012
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    .

    Then I assume you do not believe in the creation account as given, correct? Also let me ask this. Do you believe that God is eternal and Jesus is in fact that God?
     
    #67 freeatlast, Feb 6, 2012
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  8. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    If someone wants to start an evolution thread, maybe I'll talk about it. Its really insinuating for you to imply I need to be cross-examined in those other areas. What are you saying - that the sun, moon, dogs and horses were created "ex-nihilo".

    -------------------
    You're not the Spanish Inquisition - I don't need to respond to you on those matters. Jesus didn't respond either when the Pharisees demanded he admit if he was the Son of God.
     
    #68 Mark_13, Feb 6, 2012
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  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Created means created not formed or put together. God created all the elements and then formed them into what we see all this done in a moment of time, over 6 literal days. So yes everything came from nothing. That includes space. There was nothing and God created everything forming it into what we see in 6 literal days. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.(Hebrews 11:3). I am trying to understand where you are coming from so let me ask this. Do you believe that God is eternal, has no beginning or end, and the Person we know as Jesus is in fact that God?
     
    #69 freeatlast, Feb 6, 2012
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  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Great point. I gave him a sound answer, with proofs they were created as angels and in turn worship God.

    Bro, I see more and more non-cals and arminians who love to go down these roads of chimerical and fantastical doctrines. I'm glad you're not one of them.

    - Peace
     
    #70 preacher4truth, Feb 6, 2012
  11. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    While error in this particular issue may not hold any serious consequences how it is derived at can and that is why I am trying to get him to answer certain questions not pertaining to this. To hold error in one area of theology or doctrine will always lead to error in other areas.
     
    #71 freeatlast, Feb 6, 2012
  12. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    His cross examination isn't unwarranted, it's actually valid.

    Now, is freeatlast asking you to admit that you're the Son of God? Are you calling yourself the Son of God and freeatlast a Pharisee? Using your logic one could arrive at that conclusion that it is in fact what you are saying.
     
    #72 preacher4truth, Feb 6, 2012
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Please consider it carefully. You've been shown a LOT of scripture by a lot of different people that contradicts your premise; and you haven't actually shown any scripture that supports your premise, merely tries to interpret and explain scripture.

    The hardest thing any of us can do is admit we're wrong.
     
    #73 Don, Feb 6, 2012
  14. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    Don, I do not need to be issued a stern warning by someone posing as a church father or what not. There have been a handful of passage presented in this thread that merited recognition by me as problematic for the thesis I presented and I acknowledged them. After all, I solicited them to begin with. There have been twice as many passages presented in the thread that were utterly irrelevant and I noted those as well. It is also a false statement by you that I did not put forward scripture to justify my initial position. You have quite evidently not come close to reading the entire thread.
     
    #74 Mark_13, Feb 6, 2012
  15. Mark_13

    Mark_13 New Member

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    In fact I put forward passages myself that were problematic for my thesis!

    (Heb 2:5) For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. [post #5]

    Your sanctimonious reproving demeanor is unwarranted. Go soak your head.
     
    #75 Mark_13, Feb 6, 2012
  16. Flippo

    Flippo Member

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    the problem

    The problem is that scripture was used to show that angels were created as angels and you are still just considering it. When clear scripture is shown, instead of considering it just believe it.

    I have a friend who is always looking for something new and then goes to scripture to prove it. The problem with this is you can prove a lot of heresy by taking scripture out of context. Instead, just go to the Bible prayerfully and let the Bible in context teach you.

    Flippo
     
    #76 Flippo, Feb 6, 2012
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  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Friend,
    This response is completely unbiblical and a clear denial of God's word.
    If you do not believe the biblical revelation of God as creator...your unwise speculations about the nature of men and angels will be fruitless...unless you first come to grips with the word of God as it is in truth.
     
    #77 Iconoclast, Feb 6, 2012
  18. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    AMEN to that! :applause:
     
    #78 Amy.G, Feb 6, 2012
  19. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Here I go with more 'mean spirited' remarks because I'm 'one messed up dude!' :rolleyes: :laugh: :love2:

    By way of application of Pauls instructions to Timothy;

    "As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,

    nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

    But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

    For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion," 1 Timothy 1:4-6

    I think most of us here are among those who hold to sound doctrine and can agree with this instruction.

    In the past I mentioned that Arms & non-cals have a tendency to go down paths of chimerical teachings such as we see here moreso than "Calvinists."


    - Peace
     
    #79 preacher4truth, Feb 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2012
  20. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    Angels are ONLY found to be in appearance of being a man, NEVER said to axctually be a man!

    Always male......
     
    #80 DaChaser1, Feb 8, 2012
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