Disrespect for our President

[Steadfast Fred]

In the passage you quoted, Paul made the following statement:

Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted

and

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.

The very verses you use in defense of Obama prove that God did not put Obama in the White House.

Those who God puts in authority over His people are terrors to the evil and not to the good.

Obama has been just the opposite of one who God puts in authority. He is a terror to the good and not the evil.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

The whole concept of "respect is earned, not given" is one of those that sounds great and looks good on paper, but is no where to be found in Scripture. Romans 13 is clear. The authorities that are in place are God's servants. And being that fact that he has been elected to the highest office in our land and is one of God's servants per Romans 13 is reason enough for believers to respect him.

Please tell me where it says anywhere above that we HAVE to give respect?

Obeying the law =/= respect

Being polite/impolite =/= respect/disrespect.

Now that's not to say that rebellion/disobedience can't = disrespect.

I pay my taxes. I obey the law. I do what I'm supposed to do. But that has nothing to do with my respect or disrespect for the President of the United States.

Now, to the bold point: The key point here (and you chose the translation) is "IF"

I don't OWE Obama respect. If I did, I'd give it to him.

Don't confuse him being elected as him having God's support for his cause. God instituted it for whatever reason. "What you reap you sow" type thing. I'd venture to say God isn't very pleased with our leader.

 

[TadQueasy]

In the passage you quoted, Paul made the following statement:

Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted

and

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.

The very verses you use in defense of Obama prove that God did not put Obama in the White House.

Those who God puts in authority over His people are terrors to the evil and not to the good.

Obama has been just the opposite of one who God puts in authority. He is a terror to the good and not the evil.

First off, I did not post the verses in support of Obama. I put them as support for the fact that we should have respect for the President of our country.

Secondly, so you believe that God was not sovereign over Obama being elected to the White House?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Ok, so that verse covers rebellion, parhaps. I'm not even sure about that. God must have also put the Pharisees in charge, yet Christ himself, along with several disciples rebelled heavily. We have a problem there, it seems, with context.

If we reject this stupid health care bill, because I object to being forced to pay for my employee's abortion pills, and organize against it, am I being disrespectful ?

 

[LadyEagle]

If you want to "respect" obama, go ahead. I find him repulsive. Anyone who believes it is okay to pull a baby from a uterus except the head and then poke scissors in the skull and then suck the baby's brains out is disgusting, vile, and repulsive to me.

"The doctor kept the baby's head just inside the uterus. The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors through the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle
reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp.

I never went back to that clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy-- it
was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen.

-- Brenda Pratt Shafer, R.N.

And obama doesn't respect me or a vast number of Americans, either, when he calls us "terrorists" and his "enemies" - words from his own lips. And telling other Americans to bring a "gun to the fight" as I stated in an earlier post.

He is not my president. Never will be. He isn't even a natural born citizen, a Constitutional requirement to be president, IMO, and that of millions of my fellow Americans.

The verses you are referring to pertain to Caesar. As much as obama would like to be Caesar, or a King, he isn't. We, the people, are the "higher authority" in the USA at least it was until the tyrant fraudulently took office, and God is the Highest Authority.

 

[TadQueasy]

He is not my president. Never will be. He isn't even a natural born citizen, a Constitutional requirement to be president, IMO, and that of millions of my fellow Americans.

The verses you are referring to pertain to Caesar. As much as obama would like to be Caesar, or a King, he isn't. We, the people, are the "higher authority" in the USA at least it was until the tyrant fraudulently took office, and God is the Highest Authority.

Perfect example of what I am talking about.

I do not have respect him because he is not "my" president. And since I am in disagreement with Scripture then surely the Scripture just does not apply here.

 

[kyredneck]

....a disgusting person. Dishonest, bully, criminal, unqualified, incompetent.....

Which is par for the Chicago cabal that put him where he is. THOSE are the ones I have the comtempt for.

 

[TadQueasy]

Ok, so that verse covers rebellion, parhaps. I'm not even sure about that. God must have also put the Pharisees in charge, yet Christ himself, along with several disciples rebelled heavily. We have a problem there, it seems, with context.

If we reject this stupid health care bill, because I object to being forced to pay for my employee's abortion pills, and organize against it, am I being disrespectful ?

Speaking of context, the Pharisees were not the governing authority during Jesus day. The Romans were.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You are being asked a lot of questions that you are not answering. I like specifics, because complaints based on generalizations sound like whining, and I hate whining. Are you here for honest debate, or to repeat a mantra ?

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Perfect example of what I am talking about.

I do not have respect him because he is not "my" president. And since I am in disagreement with Scripture then surely the Scripture just does not apply here.

You posted scripture that said "IF"

That's a might big word to ignore there.

Being a devils advocate for the sake of being it is one thing. Being it because now you've gone to far to admit you're wrong is another.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

And ultimately, if you want to get down to it, our founding fathers were the most disrespectful people in the history of the United States.

Not sure what that says about us.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

First off, I did not post the verses in support of Obama. I put them as support for the fact that we should have respect for the President of our country.

Secondly, so you believe that God was not sovereign over Obama being elected to the White House?

In the Old Testament, the people cried for a king. They did not need a king, they had God to guide them through judges and prophets. But they cried the more for a king.

God allowed them to have a king because that is what they wanted instead of wanting Him. It is no different today. People wanted Obama. Mainly because of his lie that he would bring "change" to the nation. He did bring change, but it was not the change he promised.

God is Sovereign regardless. Hitler murdered millions of innocent Jews. God allowed it. Though Hitler's evil heart and hatred destroyed millions of people, God remained Sovereign.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Speaking of context, the Pharisees were not the governing authority during Jesus day. The Romans were.

Yet they had the authority to put Jews to death as a criminal punishment. Wanna try again ?

 

[targus]

You are being asked a lot of questions that you are not answering. I like specifics, because complaints based on generalizations sound like whining, and I hate whining. Are you here for honest debate, or to repeat a mantra ?

Thank you for that, Curtis.

 

[Robert Snow]

Wouldn't expect you too. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal.

Quite telling that you won't take "do not embrace evil" advice, though.

I will take advice from someone I respect. I don't respect you at all, so why should I listen to anything you say?

BTW, I see from your many postings that if your heart bled, <PA deleted LE>.

 

[LadyEagle]

Perfect example of what I am talking about.

I do not have respect him because he is not "my" president. And since I am in disagreement with Scripture then surely the Scripture just does not apply here.

I am in disagreement with your interpretation of Scripture. Let's be honest here.

The word "respect" has a definition. I gave it to you. I do not respect baby killers.

He is not "my" president because he chose not to be by him calling me and other Americans who disagree with him, his enemies and terrorists. He defined the specific groups he is president of, by his own words and actions.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The whole concept of "respect is earned, not given" is one of those that sounds great and looks good on paper, but is no where to be found in Scripture

You claim that the concept of "respect is earned, not given" is not in Scripture, but the truth is, it is in Scripture. And in the very passage you quoted:

If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

The verse says we are to give respect where we owe respect. In the same manner that we have to work for our employer before our employer owes us wages, one also has to earn respect before we can owe that one respect.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

You claim that the concept of "respect is earned, not given" is not in Scripture, but the truth is, it is in Scripture. And in the very passage you quoted:

If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

The verse says we are to give respect where we owe respect. In the same manner that we have to work for our employer before our employer owes us wages, one also has to earn respect before we can owe that one respect.

He ignored me calling out the word "if"...I'd be shocked if either of us get a response.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

He ignored me calling out the word "if"...I'd be shocked if either of us get a response.

Someone asked him previously in the thread if he was a troll.

I also am beginning to wonder the same thing.

 

[JonC]

Speaking of context, the Pharisees were not the governing authority during Jesus day. The Romans were.

Yet they had the authority to put Jews to death as a criminal punishment. Wanna try again ?

Tad has a good point Br. Curtis. Jewish authority only existed within the extent that Rome allowed. The Jews were looking for a military or political leader to overthrow Rome and reestablish the kingdom (another Hasmonean type dynasty, perhaps). But instead Jesus clearly indicated that His Kingdom was not of this world. If the thrust of the latter portion of this thread is correct, the early church (and Scripture) is wrong in that there was no active attempt to address pagan governmental authority. Instead, they presented the gospel, obeyed God and suffered the consequences of their faith.

America is not a theocracy but a secular nation (although one founded on Christian principles, it was never a Christian nation because nations cannot be Christian). Look at our nation as a whole, look at our values and how far removed we are from righteousness – we have the President we deserve. He may not embody the politics or economics of the majority, but I suspect he does embody their values.