Baptism in the Spirit

[The Biblicist]

If any man be ignorant LET HIM BE ignorant! I have thoroughly proven that Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Rahab, the Ninevites WERE NOT THE NATION OF ISRAEL and yet they were THE PEOPLE OF GOD and you just keep repeating your absolute false nonsense.

In the Old Testament, Israel was His People.


God's Spirit was with Israel. Now God’ Spirit lives in individuals all over the world.



Before Jesus came, God’s people looked for the Messiah, the Savior. There is no saving like that of the Savior. God sent His only Son into the world to save it through him, John 3:17.



A remnant has always been saved from Israel. There were people in the Old Testament who had faith in God, these people belonged to God, but when Jesus came to earth, these people were given to Jesus, they were now his. They had to go through Jesus now. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus.



Those from the Old Testament times who had died, those who had faith in God, but were not alive when Jesus came to earth…those people died, and their spirits went to heaven. They in heaven, together with all the living first Christians on earth, they witnessed the laying of the foundation; they witnessed the gospel being preached. When these witnesses who were spirits in heaven heard the good news and put their faith in Jesus, they then became perfect, along with the first Christians on earth. See Hebrews 11:40; 12:1, 22,23.



Again, no one is made perfect unless through Jesus Christ.

God’s Spirit was with those people, the people of Israel. God's Spirit did not live in every believer in the Old Testament times.



I gave you many scriptures that show you the Gentiles were separate. Why do you not acknowledge those scriptures? Ephesians 2:12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18; 19; Ephesians 3:6; Colossians 1:20; and Romans 11:25.



You leave out the rest of the scripture. The elect were chosen in Christ TO BE HOLY AND BLAMELESS. The plan was predestined, not people. Of course, God knows who would love Him before the creation of the world.

You are not saved before you are saved. If you were saved before you were saved, then why is God patient not wanting anyone to perish? 2 Peter 3:9.



Adam to Noah, Noah to Shem, Shem to Abram, Abraham to is the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Rahab married Salmon, Salmon was the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. They are all related, they are the forefathers that God had oaths.


Deuteronomy 7:7 The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples.

Deuteronomy 7:8 But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Romans 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

Are you actually reading these scriptures?

Exodus 32:13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.'"

Deuteronomy 4:37 Because he loved your forefathers and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength,

This is not about everyone, as you keep saying!

Micah 7:20 You will be true to Jacob, and show mercy to Abraham, as you pledged on oath to our fathers in days long ago.

Are you reading this? From Adam’s line came to Abraham’s line. They are all directly related.

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world, Ephesians 2:2.



Again, they were not made perfect until Jesus did shed his blood on the cross and the gospel was preached. See See Hebrews 11:40; 12:1, 22,23.



To be baptized in the Spirit is an individual happening. It has to do with salvation.

Jesus gave me the Holy Spirit. Before this, I had been baptized in the Catholic Church and another time as an adult in another false religion.

Read these scriptures Mark 1:8; Luke 11:13; Acts 5:30-32; Acts 8:14; Acts 8:17; Acts 19:1-5, 6; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:43-44; Acts 11:14-15; Acts 15:7-8; John 14:15-31.

 

[The Biblicist]

Just curious...

We hold that be baptised in the Spirit IS refering to Him placing those nopw savedinto the Corporate Body of Christ, into the union with him!

water baptism is means that places us into local church, but the Spirit baptism, when we become in union with Body of Christ, the "Big Church"

Here is the problem! There is no "big" church in the New Testament. You are confusing the Kingdom of God with the church of God.

Spiritual union with Christ is the relationship that Abraham had with Christ as much as you do:

Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Abraham was chosen "IN" Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) unto "salvation THROUGH santification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thes. 2:13) and all the elect know their election when the gospel comes in power and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT (1 Thes. 1:4-5). There are no third class of human beings between those who are "in the flesh" and those who are "in the Spirit" (Rom. 8:8-9) or between those born of the flesh and those born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:3-6).

There is no such thing as salvation for anyone at anytime anywhere on planet earth outside of SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ as all who are not in spiritual union with Christ are SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

 

[Moriah]

If any man be ignorant LET HIM BE ignorant! I have thoroughly proven that Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Rahab, the Ninevites WERE NOT THE NATION OF ISRAEL and yet they were THE PEOPLE OF GOD and you just keep repeating your absolute false nonsense.

You show what kind of spirit you have when you speak to people the way you do.
You also show that you can get away with speaking rudely to others.
You have NOT proven anything. Your beliefs are false.
From Adam came Abel, Seth, and Noah. From Noah came Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Rahab married Salmon who came from Abraham, and she was the mother of Boaz.
They were all related to each other. God had oaths with the forefathers.

 

[The Biblicist]

You show what kind of spirit you have when you speak to people the way you do.
You also show that you can get away with speaking rudely to others.
You have NOT proven anything. Your beliefs are false.
From Adam came Abel, Seth, and Noah. From Noah came Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Rahab married Salmon who came from Abraham, and she was the mother of Boaz.
They were all related to each other. God had oaths with the forefathers.

No, you show yourself to be completely untruthful. You write back claiming you are simply wanting to understand my position and give me objections. I respond and show that your objections are not only baseless but irrational.

How many times have you limited the "people of God" to merely the nation of Israel before Pentecost! That is so silly and unbiblical it hardly requires rebuttal. However, I have patently over and over again cited several instances from the Old Testament of God's people who were NOT OF ISRAEL and no more related to Israel than YOU are by virtue of being a son of Adam.

However, you just keep coming back with the same absurd disproven statements.

AGAIN, Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, the Ninevites were all God's peopl as any cursory reading of the Old Testament scriptues show and Hebrews 11 spell out in no uncertain terms and yet you deny it.

Furthermore, you cannot be one of God's people (EXCEPT BY PROFESSION) without the new birth as Jesus plainly tells A JEW who you would claim to be of "the people of God" and yet he was not SPIRITUALLY of "the people of God" only ETHNICALLY and by PROFESSION! What is hard to get about this????? I will tell you. You are embracing false doctrine and so you can't see the barn when it is standing on your nose!

 

[Moriah]

6. Old Testament saints were cleansed by the blood of Christ by faith looking forward to the cross (Acts 10:43 "for remission of sins") as we look back to the cross by faith.

False teaching is serious. It restrains me from laughing. You said, “Old Testament saints were cleansed by the blood of Christ by faith looking forward to the cross.”

According to you, Jesus did not have to die; the people just had to look ahead to what was going to happen!

God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect, Hebrews 10:40.

Did you read that? They were not made perfect until the gospel was preached.

The people in the Old Testament had to have animal sacrifices!

 

[The Biblicist]

False teaching is serious.

It sure is and you need to stop embracing it.

It restrains me from laughing. You said, “Old Testament saints were cleansed by the blood of Christ by faith looking forward to the cross.”

No, I said Peter said that in Acts 10:43:

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

No, I said Paul said that in Romans 3:25:

Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

According to you, Jesus did not have to die;

You are lying! Quote where I ever said such a thing! Quote me or admit you are lying! Indeed, this lie by you contradicts your very next conclusion of what you claim I believe. I can say and I believe they looked ahead to something because that something had to happen. You are so irrational that your own objections are absurd and silly.

the people just had to look ahead to what was going to happen!

Ha! If I believe that (and I do) then how can you accuse of saying I don't believe Jesus had to come and die????? What do you suppose they are looking ahead to????????? They are looking ahead to Christ coming and dying and the gospel was preached to them and BY FAITH they looked forward to the cross and God imputed righteousness to them based upon that faith!

God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect, Hebrews 10:40.

He is not talking about SALVATION through faith in the gospel as he already told you they believed in the same gospel (Heb. 4:2 - read it)!

"For unto us the gospel was preached AS WELL AS UNTO THEM...."


He is not talking about salvation, remission of sins but of the promise that Abraham was looking for - a city whose builder was God AND glorification of the body - that is the promise they looked for. REad what he says:


39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

He defines "the promise" they did not recieve and that is to be "MADE PERFECT." That is precisely what they will received yet future "WITH US."

Faith obtained salvation for them as Peter says (Acts 10:43) and Paul says (Acts 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2; Gal. 3:6-8; Romans 4) but they did not receive the promise of the New Jerusalem and glorification of their bodies by resurrection "WITHOUT US."

We have something BETTER in that we do not look forward to the coming of Christ to die but look back to the FINISHED work of Christ and forward to the New City and glorification. You simply do not understand what you are reading.

He is talking about something that they could not have WITHOUT US sharing it - the glorification of the body.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Moriah]

No, you show yourself to be completely untruthful.

What a lie you tell.

You write back claiming you are simply wanting to understand my position and give me objections. I respond and show that your objections are not only baseless but irrational.

More lies. You cannot even quote the Bible and my explanations and show me where I have explained wrong.

How many times have you limited the "people of God" to merely the nation of Israel before Pentecost!

Israel was God’s people. That is what the Bible says. The Gentiles were separate. That is what the Bible says.

That is so silly and unbiblical it hardly requires rebuttal.

You cannot stand against the Truth. However, hard you try.

However, I have patently over and over again cited several instances from the Old Testament of God's people who were NOT OF ISRAEL and no more related to Israel than YOU are by virtue of being a son of Adam.

Abraham is a direct descendent from Adam, and from Noah, etc. God made oaths to the forefathers. From the forefathers is the line to Jesus. How do you think you can keep going against this fact? Gentiles were separate. They were the uncircumcised. God spoke to the people of Israel. Salvation comes from the Jews.

The Samaritan woman said to him, “How can you, a Jew, ask me, a Samaritan woman, for a drink?” (For Jews use nothing in common with Samaritans.) John 4:9
Note, she was a Samaritan woman.
Next, read how she asks Jesus if he is greater than “our” father Jacob.
Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?” John 4:12
The woman also says,
“Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain; but you people say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem.”
Did you read that?
Now, read what Jesus says to her.
Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews. John 4:21 and 22.
Did you read how Jesus said to the woman who called Jacob “father,” and spoke of worshiping God?
What does Jesus say to her? Jesus says YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND; WE WORSHIP WHAT WE UNDERSTAND. BECAUSE SALVATION IS FROM THE JEWS.
The Jews did not even use anything in common with the Samaritans. Jesus called people from Canaanite the children’s dogs.
Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
Jesus said salvation was from the Jews.

Furthermore, you cannot be one of God's people (EXCEPT BY PROFESSION) without the new birth as Jesus plainly tells A JEW who you would claim to be of "the people of God" and yet he was not SPIRITUALLY of "the people of God" only ETHNICALLY and by PROFESSION! What is hard to get about this????? I will tell you. You are embracing false doctrine and so you can't see the barn when it is standing on your nose!

I have explained to you before that those Jews without faith in God were cut off.

 

[The Biblicist]

He that is ignorant let him be ignorant!

What a lie you tell.

More lies. You cannot even quote the Bible and my explanations and show me where I have explained wrong.

Israel was God’s people. That is what the Bible says. The Gentiles were separate. That is what the Bible says.


You cannot stand against the Truth. However, hard you try.

Abraham is a direct descendent from Adam, and from Noah, etc. God made oaths to the forefathers. From the forefathers is the line to Jesus. How do you think you can keep going against this fact? Gentiles were separate. They were the uncircumcised. God spoke to the people of Israel. Salvation comes from the Jews.

The Samaritan woman said to him, “How can you, a Jew, ask me, a Samaritan woman, for a drink?” (For Jews use nothing in common with Samaritans.) John 4:9
Note, she was a Samaritan woman.
Next, read how she asks Jesus if he is greater than “our” father Jacob.
Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?” John 4:12
The woman also says,
“Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain; but you people say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem.”
Did you read that?
Now, read what Jesus says to her.
Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews. John 4:21 and 22.
Did you read how Jesus said to the woman who called Jacob “father,” and spoke of worshiping God?
What does Jesus say to her? Jesus say YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND; WE WORSHIP WHAT WE UNDERSTAND. BECAUSE SALVATION IS FROM THE JEWS.
The Jews did not even use anything in common with the Samaritans. Jesus called people from Canaanite the children’s dogs.
Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
Jesus said salvation was from the Jews.



I have explained to you before that those Jews without faith in God were cut off.

 

[The Biblicist]

I have demonstrated my position thoroughly. Thus far, there has not been any serious objections to the position I have taken. The only objections that have been made were irrational of which I have easily proven to be unbiblical.

The bottom line is there is no such thing as THREE different classes of humanity described in the Scriptures. Either you are "in the flesh" or "in the Spirit" or born "of the flesh" or "born of the Spirit" both before and after Pentecost.

There is no such thing as TRUE SPIRITUAL people of God who are not in SPIRITUAL UNION with God as the only other alternative is SPIRITUAL SEPARATION and thus SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

The baptism of the Spirit cannot possibly pertain to SPIRITUAL UNION or to indivdiual salvation of anyone at anytime in Scriptures. It is the ONE TIME accreditation of the public house of God both in the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Moriah]

He that is ignorant let him be ignorant!

If it is not ignorance that you can claim, then you are purposely going against the Word of God.

 

[The Biblicist]

If it is not ignorance that you can claim, then you are purposely going against the Word of God.

You are an irrational person. You accuse me of claiming that Christ did not have to come and die while at the same time accusing me that I believe Old Testament saints looked forward to the coming of Christ and received remission of sins by faith.

Your accusation that I denied Christ would have to come is a lie and you cannot possibly quote me ever saying such nonsense and yet you will not admit that you have lied about my position. You are irrational and there can be reasonable discussion with an irrational person.

 

[Moriah]

You are an irrational person. You accuse me of claiming that Christ did not have to come and die while at the same time accusing me that I believe Old Testament saints looked forward to the coming of Christ and received remission of sins by faith.

Your accusation that I denied Christ would have to come is a lie and you cannot possibly quote me ever saying such nonsense and yet you will not admit that you have lied about my position. You are irrational and there can be reasonable discussion with an irrational person.

You are guilty of the very words you try to use against me.
If you find anyone, whom sides with you, then you have found someone lost and trapped just like you.

 

[Moriah]

The Old Testament people had to make animal sacrifices, without blood there was no forgiveness of sins.

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived, Luke 2:21.

Biblicist, were the Gentiles circumcised? No.


Luke 2:22 When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord

Luke 2:23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord"),

Luke 2:24 and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: "a pair of doves or two young pigeons."

Even Mary had to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord.
Did the Gentiles do that? No.

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness, Hebrews 9:22.

Did the Gentiles offer sin offerings for their sins? No.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

Did the Gentile make atonement for their selves? No. So why in the world do you keep saying the Gentiles were God’s people in the Old Testament!

 

[Moriah]

Biblicist continually says that even Gentiles were God’s people in the Old Testament times, even though the Gentiles were not circumcised and did not give sin offerings and do other works of the law.

Biblicist says the Old Testament people were forgiven for sins by looking forward to Jesus’s shed blood on the cross; however, the Old Testament Jews had to shed blood of animals for atonement of sins.

Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, those were the Jews with faith, and the other Jews were cut off. After Jesus was lifted up, then all men could come to him.

Biblicist calls it debating when he calls me names and falsely accuses me. He has no understanding and that is where most his false accusations and twisting what I say comes from.

I gave scripture that says the blood of Christ brought the Gentiles near. That Jesus makes the Jews and the Gentiles one by his flesh. That through the gospel that the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel. See Ephesians 2:13, 15; and Ephesians 3:6. Those things happened WHEN Jesus was crucified.

Again, Biblicist does not acknowledge the Truth, but denies and continues to teach falseness.

 

[The Biblicist]

Biblicist continually says that even Gentiles were God’s people in the Old Testament times, even though the Gentiles were not circumcised and did not give sin offerings and do other works of the law.

If you are going to represent what I believe do it right! Don't distort it. I DO NOT believe that Gentiles as NATIONS were the people of God in the Old Testament but there were many Gentile INDIVIDUALS which I have named over and over again. The ONLY people of God as a NATION is Israel in the Old Testament. However, Deuteronomy 9:5-7 clearly explains this does not mean that Israel as a NATION was the SPIRITUAL people of God but only the ETHNIC chosen people of God by profession.

However, it does not matter how many times I explain it to you, you will pervert it because it is in your best interest to pervert my position.

Biblicist says the Old Testament people were forgiven for sins by looking forward to Jesus’s shed blood on the cross; however, the Old Testament Jews had to shed blood of animals for atonement of sins.

The NEW TESTAMENT says this - Acts 10:43; Romans 3:25; Romans 4:6-8; etc. Your problem is with these scriptures not me!

Biblicist calls it debating when he calls me names and falsely accuses me. He has no understanding and that is where most his false accusations and twisting what I say comes from.

You sir were caught in a bold face lie and when I pointed out that lie you did not deny it but simply ignored it. YOU LIED when you represented me as believing that Jesus did not need to come and die on the cross. It was such a bold face lie because in that very lie you admitted I did believe the Old Testament saints expressed faith in the future cross.

I gave scripture that says the blood of Christ brought the Gentiles near. That Jesus makes the Jews and the Gentiles one by his flesh. That through the gospel that the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel. See Ephesians 2:13, 15; and Ephesians 3:6. Those things happened WHEN Jesus was crucified.

You perverted those scriptures to deny that scores of INDIVIDUAL Gentiles living previous to the cross could not be saved or have their sins remitted, meaning they could not be justified by faith in the gospel as justification includes remission of sins (Rom. 4:4-8).

 

[Moriah]

If you are going to represent what I believe do it right! Don't distort it. I DO NOT believe that Gentiles as NATIONS were the people of God in the Old Testament but there were many Gentile INDIVIDUALS which I have named over and over again.

You are changing it up some now. Now you say Gentiles were not saved as a NATION. However, they were not saved individually like the Jews or like a nation! You said Gentiles were saved like the Jews were in the Old Testament. You bring up Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham, you argue as if they were Gentiles, but Gentiles were separated from God, yet you have been arguing that they were Gentiles. You say Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham were Gentiles, and Gentiles besides those just named had been saved all along like the Jews were. As for Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham, they were Jacob’s (Israel’s) forefathers!

The NEW TESTAMENT says this - Acts 10:43; Romans 3:25; Romans 4:6-8; etc. Your problem is with these scriptures not me!

Those scriptures do not say what you say. Those scriptures explain how it is for us after Jesus came and died for us.

You sir were caught in a bold face lie and when I pointed out that lie you did not deny it but simply ignored it. YOU LIED when you represented me as believing that Jesus did not need to come and die on the cross. It was such a bold face lie because in that very lie you admitted I did believe the Old Testament saints expressed faith in the future cross.

You speak a twisted mess. You are guilty of what you accuse me. You said the Old Testament believers were forgiven of their sins when they looked ahead at the cross while we look back at it. With your beliefs, they were benefitting from the shed blood of Jesus before Jesus shed his blood! With your false beliefs, it means Jesus could be crucified in the year 3000 and all of those living from the beginning of time, us now, and in the future just have to keep looking to that future and be saved.

You perverted those scriptures

Show exactly where I have done such a thing, show it, or repent of being a slanderous liar, a slanderous liar who enjoys the word ‘pervert.’

to deny that scores of INDIVIDUAL Gentiles living previous to the cross could not be saved or have their sins remitted, meaning they could not be justified by faith in the gospel as justification includes remission of sins.

"Scores of individual Gentiles"?
Here it is again, you DO say “scores of individual Gentiles living previous to the cross…” How were they saved before the cross! They did not give sin offerings! Jesus’ blood was not yet shed on the cross!
I gave you scripture that says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. SO HOW WERE ALL THOSE GENTILES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT TIMES FORGIVEN? DID THEY SHED BLOOD LIKE THE JEWS? No! You reject the Truth.
Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

 

[DHK]

You are changing it up some now. Now you say Gentiles were not saved as a NATION. However, they were not saved individually like the Jews or like a nation! You said Gentiles were saved like the Jews were in the Old Testament. You bring up Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham, you argue as if they were Gentiles, but Gentiles were separated from God, yet you have been arguing that they were Gentiles. You say Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham were Gentiles, and Gentiles besides those just named had been saved all along like the Jews were. As for Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham, they were Jacob’s (Israel’s) forefathers!

Rahab the harlot,
Ruth the Moabitess,
And Jonah, sent to the Ninevites; the entire nation repented in sackcloth and ashes.

Two individuals and an entire Gentile nation were saved after Jacob had lived and died.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are changing it up some now. Now you say Gentiles were not saved as a NATION.

Another bald face lie! Find any statement by me that I have EVER said gentiles were saved as NATIONS before the cross!

You are adding to you list of lies. First you lied by falsely accusing me that I did not believe Jesus had to come and die, and you made this false charge because of all things, I said they were saved by faith looking to the cross. Now you lie again!

Now quote where I said that gentiles were saved as NATIONS before the cross or repent of your false accusation!

However, they were not saved individually like the Jews or like a nation! You said Gentiles were saved like the Jews were in the Old Testament. You bring up Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham, you argue as if they were Gentiles, but Gentiles were separated from God, yet you have been arguing that they were Gentiles. You say Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham were Gentiles, and Gentiles besides those just named had been saved all along like the Jews were. As for Adam, Noah, Shem, and Abraham, they were Jacob’s (Israel’s) forefathers!

Hebrews 4:2 says they were saved by the same gospel we are. READ IT!

Acts 10:43 says they had their sins remitted by faith just as we do. READ IT!

God does not have TWO Saviors, TWO gospels' TWO ways of salvation nor is there TWO different kinds of human beings. Go figure!

Those scriptures do not say what you say. Those scriptures explain how it is for us after Jesus came and died for us.

Either you cannot read or you cannot understand what you read! Tell me does Acts 10:43 says "SOME" prophets or "ALL" prophets? Does Acts 10:43 say that all the prophets gave witness to Christ??? Read it! Does Acts 10:43 say that what they ALL GAVE WITNESS TO was that "whosever believeth in his name shall receive remission of sins"???

Go back to sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.

Tell me, does Hebrews 4:2 says "unto us" and "as well as unto them" that "THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED"?????? Or does it say one kind of gospel was preached to them and another kind of gospel to us???

Go back to sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.

You speak a twisted mess.

It is your mind that is twisted by false doctrine that you cannot even read English right in front of your nose. It is not a matter of interpetation but explicit clear unambigous statements that Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 make. Your mind is so irrational you cannot even read and makes sense of the words you read.

Go back to Sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.

You are guilty of what you accuse me. You said the Old Testament believers were forgiven of their sins when they looked ahead at the cross while we look back at it. With your beliefs, they were benefitting from the shed blood of Jesus before Jesus shed his blood! With your false beliefs, it means Jesus could be crucified in the year 3000 and all of those living from the beginning of time, us now, and in the future just have to keep looking to that future and be saved.

Do you know what a "PROMISE" is? Apparently not! The coming Messiah Savior was PROMISED them in the gospel preached to them.

You wouldn't even believe Jesus if he told you that would you??? Read his lips because Jesus is calling you by name in these verses:

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?...........44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


What you need is for Christ to apply verse 45 to you!


No more discussion will be had with the likes of you! If you wish to remain ignorant then so be it.

 

[Moriah]

Rahab the harlot,
Ruth the Moabitess,
And Jonah, sent to the Ninevites; the entire nation repented in sackcloth and ashes.

Two individuals and an entire Gentile nation were saved after Jacob had lived and died.

Boaz married Ruth and became the great grandmother of David.
What do you think you have proven by bringing up Ruth?
God had mercy on the Ninevites. What do you think you have proven by bringing them up?

 

[The Biblicist]

The Old Testament people had to make animal sacrifices, without blood there was no forgiveness of sins.

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived, Luke 2:21.

Biblicist, were the Gentiles circumcised? No.

Reader, Moriah is claiming that Jesus Christ needed to be saved!!!! He is using the circumcision of Jesus Christ and blood sacrifices to prove Old Testament saints were saved by blood sacrifices when Hebrews 10:4 denies that such sacrifices EVER took away sins but they were only TYPES and FIGURES and NEVER remitted sins. However, that does not matter to Moriah. No, he will make it fit his false gospel and false doctrines.

It does not make any difference to Moriah that Paul repeatedly states that the jews were NEVER justified by keeping the law (Rom. 3:19-20) and that the Law was NEVER given as a way to obtain eternal life (Gal. 3:21). No, Moriah will make it fit his false gospel and false doctrine.


It does not matter to Moriah that Christ claimed there was only "ONE" way before Pentecost to be saved (Mt. 7:13-14) and that "NO MAN" could come to the Father BEFORE Pentecost except by faith in him (Jn. 14:6; Jn. 3:16) as well as after Pentecost (Acts 4:12).