Baptism in the Spirit

[Moriah]

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

I know what the Bible says. I asked you to show me where the Bible says what you say. Show me where in the Bible it says the Ninevites were God’s children, as you say they were.

When a person is saved they become a child of God. God is not partial. If he is, then you don't serve the same God I do. For the Bible says:

You should not ever say that you do not serve the same God as I do. Jesus Christ himself saved me. I have a powerful testimony. Nothing you can say or do can take it away.

--There is no partiality with God, no variableness, no shadow of turning. He doesn't discriminate. They didn't have to convert to Judaism; they only had to believe in God.

You say the Ninevites did not follow God’s laws and you speak your own words and not God’s.

If all anyone had to do was just believe in God, then why did the Jews have to do ceremonial washings? Why did they have to do circumcisions? Why did they have to observe special days? Why did they have dietary laws? Why did they have to give sin offerings? Answer that!

They would always be Gentiles, but saved Gentiles.

So now, are you still conceding that they converted to Judaism, or have you flip flopped your beliefs again?

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin"? You think that the answer is yes, but it is not. A Gentile is a Gentile. He is born that way, and one is born a Jew. Both must be "born again."

Do not tell me what I think.

A Gentile can convert to Judaism.

In the Old Testament, God required His people to do certain things, or they would be cut off.

You deny that by what you are arguing.


Are you denying that the Jews were God’s children?

Are you denying that the Jews had a written code with regulations just to worship God?

Are you denying the fact that the Bible says the Gentiles were separate and without God in the world?

Are you denying the fact that the blood of Jesus, his flesh, the gospel is what brought the Gentiles near to God?

If you deny any of those things, then you deny the Truth.

In spite of it all they were still saved by faith, even as the Bible declares that Abraham was saved by faith.

How did they have remission of sins? The Bible says if there is no shed blood then there is no atonement for sins.

The Jews had to believe in Jehovah. They were saved by faith, as we are.

Are you discounting all the Jews had to do just to worship God? Answer yes or no.

One is saved by faith and faith alone--both in the NT and in the OT.

If the Gentiles were saved by faith alone in the Old Testament, as you say they were, and they did not shed blood for their sins, then Jesus shed his blood for nothing, according to your logic.

 

[The Biblicist]

A Gentile can convert to Judaism..

Why would Jesus tell a Jew that he must be born again if he were already a SPIRITUAL child of God?

Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews, a teacher of the law, a Pharisee who observed the laws of God as good as any Jew. If he were already a SPIRITUAL child of God by observing the Law then why would Jesus tell him he must be born again?

If this is true of the Jewish leaders how much more the common Jew?

 

[Moriah]

Are ALL HUMANS born into this world as "enemies of God, and children of wrath"?

Was Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham born into the world as "enemies of God, an children of wrath"?

Were all Israelites from the twelve children of Jacob till now born into this world as "enemies of God and children of wrath"?

Speak up what you are trying to get at.

There are those who believe and obey God.

 

[Moriah]

Why would Jesus tell a Jew that he must be born again if he were already a SPIRITUAL child of God?

Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews, a teacher of the law, a Pharisee who observed the laws of God as good as any Jew. If he were already a SPIRITUAL child of God by observing the Law then why would Jesus tell him he must be born again?

If this is true of the Jewish leaders how much more the common Jew?

God’s children and chosen people were the Jews.

The Jews had to do the works of the law. They had to be circumcised, they had many things to do just to worship God, and they had sin offerings.

There were Jews who, for instance, gave sin offerings, because law required it, but they were not sorry for their sins. They did not love God. They did not have faith in God. Again, they did what the things the law required them to do, because it was the law.

In the New Testament, the New Covenant, God cut off those Jews, the remnant He saved because of their faith.

Jews no longer have to do the works of the law like circumcision, sin offerings, observance of special day, etc., and Gentiles do not have to do those things. However, we do have to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them.

 

[The Biblicist]

God’s children and chosen people were the Jews.

The Jews had to do the works of the law. They had to be circumcised, they had many things to do just to worship God, and they had sin offerings.

.

You are ignorning the question! Why did Jesus tell a law keeping Jew BEFORE the cross that he must be born again (Jn. 3:3-9) if simply being a jew/Israelite and simply keeping the law and sacrifices were sufficient to save them???

 

[The Biblicist]

Speak up what you are trying to get at.

There are those who believe and obey God.

Quit ignoring the questions. Quit side stepping the questions. Answer the questions.


Originally Posted by The Biblicist
Are ALL HUMANS born into this world as "enemies of God, and children of wrath"?

Was Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham born into the world as "enemies of God, an children of wrath"?

Were all Israelites from the twelve children of Jacob till now born into this world as "enemies of God and children of wrath"?

 

[Moriah]

You are ignorning the question!

Stop it, I am not ignoring the question.

Why did Jesus tell a law keeping Jew BEFORE the cross that he must be born again (Jn. 3:3-9) if simply being a jew/Israelite and simply keeping the law and sacrifices were sufficient to save them???

I already explained to you that just keeping the law was not sufficient.
The Spirit gives life to spirit. Jesus’ words are Spirit, and they are life. See John 6:63.
Nicodemus did not understand about obeying Jesus’ words and being born again by them.
Again, in the Old Testament, a person had to give sin offerings, but a person could give sin offerings and not really be sorry for their sins. God did not like that when people did that.
However, take for instance if someone obeys Jesus by forgiving others, that is a teaching if they obey changes them, and obeying Jesus’ teachings will work all the way through a person, changing them to the likeness of Christ.

 

[Moriah]

Quit ignoring the questions. Quit side stepping the questions. Answer the questions.

I answer your questions.

Originally Posted by The Biblicist
Are ALL HUMANS born into this world as "enemies of God, and children of wrath"?

That question should not just be answered with a yes or a no without any kind of explanation.
Children are not born into the world committing all kinds of sins, sins like murder, stealing, adultery, etc.

Was Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham born into the world as "enemies of God, an children of wrath"? Were all Israelites from the twelve children of Jacob till now born into this world as "enemies of God and children of wrath"?

Again, children are not born into this world committing all kinds of sins.

The Bible says about the Old Testament righteous that there is none righteous and who do not never sin.

We also know that there are unbelievers who do nice things; for example, they do love those who love them, etc.

There are people who do things that are right, and when they learn about Jesus, they come to the light and so that it may be seen plainly that what they do has been done through God. They give God the credit and thanks. They are sorry for their sins that they have done.

Then there are the people who do learn about Jesus, but they do not want to give up the evil that they do, so they do not come to God and give up sins and do what Jesus says.

 

[The Biblicist]

That question should not just be answered with a yes or a no without any kind of explanation.

So you wouldn't say what Christ said, or agree with him when he said:

"THERE IS NONE good BUT ONE and that is God"

Jesus was speaking to a Jew who professed to keep all the commandments of God from his youth up and who was seeking eternal life. Woud you say that to such a Jew? You would you say that to ANYONE?

You believe there are some natural born human beings that are born into this world as "good" because you go on to say:

We also know that there are unbelievers who do nice things; for example, they do love those who love them, etc. - Moriah

Christ said there is "NONE" but you say there are SOME that do "nice things?"

Do you think Christ lied when he said there is only ONE that is Good and NONE others? "There is NONE good BUT ONE"?????

Do you know the difference between the word "NONE" and the word "SOME"??


So you wouldn't say what Paul said, or agree with when he made the repeated absolute statements:

"THERE IS NONE good, no, NOT ONE"

"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, no, NOT ONE"

Do you know the difference between the words "NOT ONE" and "SOME"? Do you know the difference between "NONE" and "some"???


You would say there is SOME good and there are SOME righteous and so Jesus and Paul simply were wrong in making such ABSOLUTE and UNIVERSAL statements that excluded all but ONE, which is God??????

Children are not born into the world committing all kinds of sins, sins like murder, stealing, adultery, etc.

So you don't make any distinction between the sinful nature from whence sins like murder, stealing, adultery come from and those sins themselves.

You think SINS simply occur instead of being the fruit of a sinful nature all men are born with?

The Bible says about the Old Testament righteous that there is none righteous and who do not never sin.

So you think they are born into this world righteous but will eventually sin? You don't believe they are born with a sinful nature and condemned already because they are sinners BY NATURE and that is why they eventually sin???

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is the problem! There is no "big" church in the New Testament. You are confusing the Kingdom of God with the church of God.

Spiritual union with Christ is the relationship that Abraham had with Christ as much as you do:

Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Abraham was chosen "IN" Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) unto "salvation THROUGH santification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thes. 2:13) and all the elect know their election when the gospel comes in power and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT (1 Thes. 1:4-5). There are no third class of human beings between those who are "in the flesh" and those who are "in the Spirit" (Rom. 8:8-9) or between those born of the flesh and those born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:3-6).

There is no such thing as salvation for anyone at anytime anywhere on planet earth outside of SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ as all who are not in spiritual union with Christ are SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

NONE of the OT believers in God were in the Church, Body of Christ, as he had not yet come to die as atonement for sins, and the Holy Spirit had not yetcome as he did at pentacost!

there were saved under Old Covenant, while we were saved under the New Covenant...

Isreal saints saved unto God, but we in NT Church are under a newer/surer/superior Covenant, as we have what they could not and did not have, permenant presense of the Holy spirit indwelling, and new natures from God!

And the Church was not in the OT, but was established officially by God at pentacost, and there is just ONE body/bride of Christ, the "Church" but many seperate parts to it on earth, in "local churches/assemblies"

 

[Moriah]

So you wouldn't say what Christ said, or agree with him when he said:

Stop making up stuff that I do not say or believe. When you say everyone is born evil, you give the wrong ideas to others. Babies are not born into the world doing all sorts of sins, as your beliefs imply one to think. You do not sound like you are sound when you say it in such a way.
We are all born needing to learn about God. We are all born inclined to the negative, to the sinful way.

"THERE IS NONE good BUT ONE and that is God"

Jesus was speaking to a Jew who professed to keep all the commandments of God from his youth up and who was seeking eternal life. Woud you say that to such a Jew? You would you say that to ANYONE?

I say what the Bible says.

You believe there are some natural born human beings that are born into this world as "good" because you go on to say:

We also know that there are unbelievers who do nice things; for example, they do love those who love them, etc. - Moriah

Christ said there is "NONE" but you say there are SOME that do "nice things?"

You stray easily from things said. How do you get that people do nice things to there are those born good without God?
You are in an imaginary state of mind if you really think that there are unbelievers who never do anything even remotely nice. Jesus said the ungrateful and wicked love those that love them! Is it nice to love those who love you? Think about it. There are unbelievers who take care of their children, feed them, help others, etc., but they may be a Hindu, a Buddhist, an Atheist. You have been so indoctrinated by Calvinism you cannot see right.

Do you think Christ lied when he said there is only ONE that is Good and NONE others? "There is NONE good BUT ONE"?????

Only God is good. When one does good, it is through God.

All good is from God. When an unbeliever does something good, they do not glorify God, they do not show that it was done through God. See Romans 1:21, and John 3:21.

So you wouldn't say what Paul said, or agree with when he made the repeated absolute statements:

"THERE IS NONE good, no, NOT ONE"

"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, no, NOT ONE"

Paul is quoting scripture that says there is none righteous and WHO NEVER NOT SIN. You do not know the scriptures. Look up what Paul is quoting from the Old Testament.

So you don't make any distinction between the sinful nature from whence sins like murder, stealing, adultery come from and those sins themselves.

We are born of the flesh, we are not born already knowing what hate and murder is, and lust and adultery, but we will soon know those things naturally.

 

[The Biblicist]

When you say everyone is born evil, you give the wrong ideas to others. Babies are not born into the world doing all sorts of sins,

you really can't discern between a sinful nature and sinful acts can you? Babies are born with a sinful nature and LATER that nature is expressed by sinful deeds.

You are one messed up individual! I don't doubt you have a powerful salvation testimony but whether it is Biblical or not that is rather doubtful in my opinion. Oh yes, I realize my opinion means nothing to you.

 

[DHK]

I know what the Bible says. I asked you to show me where the Bible says what you say. Show me where in the Bible it says the Ninevites were God’s children, as you say they were.

I have, at least three times now. If I show you a hundred times you still will not believe me. That is true isn't it?

You should not ever say that you do not serve the same God as I do. Jesus Christ himself saved me. I have a powerful testimony. Nothing you can say or do can take it away.

No, you serve a God who is partial to others, as you said. He is not a fair God, but a biased God. I don't believe that. The God of the Bible is just and fair. Abraham said about God: "Shall not the God of all the earth do just?" I believe in Abraham's assessment of God, not yours.

When the Ninevites became saved, that is when the repented and believed Jehovah, they became God's children. God was not partial. He accepted them as their own. You can be biased and partial against them. But God is not.

You say the Ninevites did not follow God’s laws and you speak your own words and not God’s.

Neither did Enoch. Yet he walked so closely to God that God took him straight to heaven without Enoch ever dying. He was saved by faith.

If all anyone had to do was just believe in God, then why did the Jews have to do ceremonial washings? Why did they have to do circumcisions? Why did they have to observe special days? Why did they have dietary laws? Why did they have to give sin offerings? Answer that!

They obeyed God because they were saved, not in order to get saved. There were those Jews that demonstrated by their actions that they were not saved, like Eli's two sons.

So now, are you still conceding that they converted to Judaism, or have you flip flopped your beliefs again?

I never said that. Look, don't you believe the Scriptures? Apparently not!
Look what the Scriptures say concerning Ruth:

Ruth 1:16-17 And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me.

This is Ruth's salvation testimony. She testified that the God of Naomi was her God. She was a believer. She had never kept any of the laws of Judaism. She was not officially accepted into Judaism. She was a Moabitess by birth, not a Jew, and in that respect would always be ethnically a Moabitess, and never from the Jewish nation. One cannot change their ancestry or their genetic make-up. She was not a Jew by birth--of the Jewish nation. She would always be a Gentile by birth. But she would be a believer by faith. Her salvation testimony is given before she ever converted to Judaism.

Do not tell me what I think.

A Gentile can convert to Judaism.

But if he is from Ethiopia he will always have black skin, not the olive skin of the Jewish nation. He can't change that. He will never be a part of the Jewish nation by birth.

In the Old Testament, God required His people to do certain things, or they would be cut off.

You deny that by what you are arguing.

They would still be of the nation of the Jews. They would still have that heritage. What other nation would they belong to?

Are you denying that the Jews were God’s children?

You just did.

Are you denying that the Jews had a written code with regulations just to worship God?

Christians have a written code. It is called the NT. We both are saved by faith.

Are you denying the fact that the Bible says the Gentiles were separate and without God in the world?

Jews are separate and without God in the world until they come to God by faith. Eli's two sons were without God.

Are you denying the fact that the blood of Jesus, his flesh, the gospel is what brought the Gentiles near to God?

Jesus blood was shed for all men including the Jews. When John said: "Behold the lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world," he was speaking to Jews.

If you deny any of those things, then you deny the Truth.

Then you are admitting that you deny the truth??

How did they have remission of sins? The Bible says if there is no shed blood then there is no atonement for sins.

OT believers look in faith toward the cross; NT believers look in faith back to the cross.

Are you discounting all the Jews had to do just to worship God? Answer yes or no.

They simply had to believe by faith, just as we do.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
--Abraham believed God; Abraham was saved. That is how simple it is.

If the Gentiles were saved by faith alone in the Old Testament, as you say they were, and they did not shed blood for their sins, then Jesus shed his blood for nothing, according to your logic.

Jesus shed his blood for all, including OT believers.

It is your logic that is very strange.

 

[Moriah]

you really can't discern between a sinful nature and sinful acts can you? Babies are born with a sinful nature and LATER that nature is expressed by sinful deeds.

Stop making stuff up when you debate me. Show me what I have said that means I cannot discern between a sinful nature and sinful acts.

You are one messed up individual! I don't doubt you have a powerful salvation testimony but whether it is Biblical or not that is rather doubtful in my opinion. Oh yes, I realize my opinion means nothing to you.

You reject the Truth. I take the time to discuss carefully and deeply with you, and get brute attacks by you.

 

[The Biblicist]

Stop making stuff up when you debate me. Show me what I have said that means I cannot discern between a sinful nature and sinful acts.

Don't you read your own objections that I am responding to??:BangHead:

You reject the Truth. I take the time to discuss carefully and deeply with you, and get brute attacks by you.

you would not recognize truth if it slapped you in the face and looked you directly in the eyes. I have never dealt with a person so blinded in all my born days.

 

[Moriah]

I have, at least three times now. If I show you a hundred times you still will not believe me. That is true isn't it?

You have not shown where a scripture says, “The Ninevites are God’s children.”

If the Ninevites obeyed God’s laws, then they became like the Jews.

Whether or not the Ninetives were now called God’s children or not, it does not give support to your beliefs that all Gentiles were saved and were God’s children. God had laws that His children were commanded to do. They had to do what God said to do. They had the law to obey, they had to atone for their sins with shed blood of animals.

No, you serve a God who is partial to others, as you said. He is not a fair God, but a biased God. I don't believe that. The God of the Bible is just and fair. Abraham said about God: "Shall not the God of all the earth do just?" I believe in Abraham's assessment of God, not yours.

Your lies do not affect my relationship with God. God said for His people to do certain things, or they would be cut off. Jews were cut off. Now do you deny this or not?

When the Ninevites became saved, that is when the repented and believed Jehovah, they became God's children. God was not partial. He accepted them as their own. You can be biased and partial against them. But God is not.

Did they atone for their sins with blood, as the Jews did?
Did they get circumcised?
Where they allowed to go the Temple and synagogues?

Neither did Enoch. Yet he walked so closely to God that God took him straight to heaven without Enoch ever dying. He was saved by faith.

Romans 4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

They obeyed God because they were saved, not in order to get saved. There were those Jews that demonstrated by their actions that they were not saved, like Eli's two sons.

You are wrong. Jews that obeyed the law of works still were cut off. Remember the Pharisees and teachers of the law!

Look, don't you believe the Scriptures? Apparently not!
Look what the Scriptures say concerning Ruth:

I believe the scriptures. You deny them and twist them.

Ruth 1:16-17 And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me.

Do you think Ruth did not obey God’s law when she says your people will be my people and your God my God?

This is Ruth's salvation testimony. She testified that the God of Ruth was her God. She was a believer. She had never kept any of the laws of Judaism. She was not officially accepted into Judaism. She was a Moabitess by birth, not a Jew, and in that respect would always be ethnically a Moabitess, and never from the Jewish nation. One cannot change their ancestry or their genetic make-up. She was not a Jew by birth--of the Jewish nation. She would always be a Gentile by birth. But she would be a believer by faith. Her salvation testimony is given before she ever converted to Judaism.

You said, “Before she ever converted to Judaism.” You see, more flip-flopping.

But if he is from Ethiopia he will always have black skin, not the olive skin of the Jewish nation. He can't change that. He will never be a part of the Jewish nation by birth.

A Jew is one inwardly.

Jesus blood was shed for all men including the Jews. When John said: "Behold the lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world," he was speaking to Jews.

He was not speaking to the Gentiles yet. LOL

OT believers look in faith toward the cross; NT believers look in faith back to the cross.

The Old Testament believers obeyed God too. They had an earthly Temple and obeyed the written code with its rules and regulations just to worship God.

Moriah’s questions to DHK: “Are you discounting all the Jews had to do just to worship God? Answer yes or no.”

DHK’s answer:
They simply had to believe by faith, just as we do.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
--Abraham believed God; Abraham was saved. That is how simple it is.

LOL I cannot believe what you are saying. Take note everyone, DHK says the Jews just had to believe and not obey the law.
The Jews had to obey God! Christians have to obey God. You teach something that makes Satan grin.

 

[Moriah]

Don't you read your own objections that I am responding to??:BangHead:




you would not recognize truth if it slapped you in the face and looked you directly in the eyes. I have never dealt with a person so blinded in all my born days.

I do not like your spirit. Keep banging your head and being a brute foul-mouthed person.

This is a good bye for me.

 

[The Biblicist]

I do not like your spirit. Keep banging your head and being a brute foul-mouthed person.

This is a good bye for me.

I hope you keep your promises!:thumbs:

 

[The Biblicist]

There are basically three views of the Baptism in the Spirit.

1. Protestant view - Placement by the Holy Spirit at regeneration into the mystical universal body of Christ.


2. Pentecostal view - Subsequent second work of grace after regeneration manifested by speaking in tongues.

3. Historical Baptist View - Well documented Old Testament public accreditation of a new house of God that occurred once at the beginning just after the house of God had been finished.


Just properly looking at the promise and its language sufficiently repudiates the first two theories:


Mt. 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost"


A. The Administrator is not the Spirit of God but Christ. - "he shall"

B. The Element is not the body of Christ but the Spirit "with (Gr. en) the Holy Ghost"

C. The Candidate is not the individual believer but plural water baptized beleivers. "baptize you with water....you" (Plural, and it is those baptized believers)

D. The Mode - "baptize" - immersion

E. The Time - All scriptures prior to Acts 2 point forward with Acts 1:5 specifying it "not many days hence" while all references after Acts 2 point backwards (Acts 11:15- "at the beginning) proving that the Acts 10 occurrence was clearly an exception to the rule. Take note that the NEAREST reference point Peter could refer to when such a thing had previously occurred was "AT the beginning." If as Pentecostals and Protestants say this as a continuing individualized experience then Peter should have said "SINCE the beginning" but He did not say that, proving it was EXCEPTIONAL rather than the rule.

F. The Manifestations - Shikinah glory and fire. In Acts 2-6 no one but the apostles spoke in tongues or exercised spiritual gifts and miracles. In Acts 6-28 no one spoke in tongues and exercised spiritual gifts and miracles but those whom the Apostles laid their hands upon. Tongues, miracles, signs and wonders are the "sign" of the apostolic office (2 Cor. 12:12) and are imparted only to others through the laying on of apostolic hands (Rom. 1:11; Acts 6:5; 8:16-17; 19:6; etc.)

Conclusion: Both the Protestant and Pentecost call it a baptism by the Spirit when it is a baptism by Christ. The Protestant theory is that it is the Spirit baptizing the beleiver into Christ when it is Christ baptizing water baptized believers into the Spirit. Both of these theories fail because they demand it is an ongoing individualized experience when in fact it is treated in scripture as fulfilled on Pentecost once and for all and that the case at the house of Corneilius is treated as the only exception to that rule - "AT the beginning."

As before proved. The Baptism in the Spirit has nothing to do with spiritual union between individuals and God as that was the condition of all people of God both Jews and Gentiles previous to Pentecost.

This is an INSTITUTIONAL immersion into the shikinah glory of God as previously seen in regard to the both former public houses of Worship.

 

[DHK]

You have not shown where a scripture says, “The Ninevites are God’s children.”

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Jonah 3:5-6 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.

If the Ninevites obeyed God’s laws, then they became like the Jews.

Like Enoch, Noah, Adam, did? Why should they become like Jews? That is your messed up theology.

Whether or not the Ninetives were now called God’s children or not, it does not give support to your beliefs that all Gentiles were saved and were God’s children. God had laws that His children were commanded to do. They had to do what God said to do. They had the law to obey, they had to atone for their sins with shed blood of animals.

Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that.
Rahab the harlot was saved by believing in God, not by shedding the blood of an animal. The same is true for Abraham and Ruth. Do you really study your Bible? I never said that all Gentiles are saved! Where do you get that idea. Those who call upon the name of the Lord (Rom.10:13) shall be saved. You do believe the Bible don't you?

Your lies do not affect my relationship with God. God said for His people to do certain things, or they would be cut off. Jews were cut off. Now do you deny this or not?

By lineage and descent he still remained a Jew. You don't seem to understand that. He may have been spiritually cut off, but not physically cut off. That is impossible. Can the Ethiopian change his skin?
Can the Jew change his? You think they can.

Did they atone for their sins with blood, as the Jews did?
Did they get circumcised?
Where they allowed to go the Temple and synagogues?

Did you?
Christ died for the sins of the world: yours as well as theirs. Adam, Enoch and Noah never went to the Temple and synagogues, and neither did the Ninevites. They weren't required to, but they were all saved by faith. Are you, Moriah, saved by faith or by works. If you are not saved by faith and faith alone, then perhaps you are not saved at all.

Romans 4:15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Adam sinned. There has been law ever since Adam. You misunderstand these verses.

You are wrong. Jews that obeyed the law of works still were cut off. Remember the Pharisees and teachers of the law!

I am not wrong.
The Jews obeyed God because they were saved, not in order to get saved.
Thus it is written: "Not all Israel is Israel." Only a part of Israel was true and believing. They all didn't believe. A whole generation perished in the wilderness, because of their unbelief.

I believe the scriptures. You deny them and twist them.

Do you think Ruth did not obey God’s law when she says your people will be my people and your God my God?

Yes, but only after she was saved; only after she made that confession faith, while she was yet in Moab. You have demonstrated your confusion and lack of Bible knowledge.

You said, “Before she ever converted to Judaism.” You see, more flip-flopping.

1. She will always be a Gentile by her ethnicity.
2. She converted to Judaism by her faith.
3. Because she trusted God, she, a Gentile, became part of the ancestry of Christ.

He was not speaking to the Gentiles yet. LOL

No, he was speaking to the Jews, and he said to the Jews:
Look, there is the Lamb of God, the Messiah, who will take away the sins of the world. Not just of the Jews, but of all the world, Gentiles included.

The Old Testament believers obeyed God too. They had an earthly Temple and obeyed the written code with its rules and regulations just to worship God.

LOL I cannot believe what you are saying. Take note everyone, DHK says the Jews just had to believe and not obey the law.
The Jews had to obey God! Christians have to obey God. You teach something that makes Satan grin.[/QUOTE]
Jesus said to the Samaritan women:
"Salvation is of the Jews"
He also said: "They that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."

Salvation is not of works, as you are falsely teaching.
Your a teaching a religion that is no better than Hinduism or Islam.
Salvation, both in the OT and in the NT is by faith in God. It is by faith and faith alone. Romans 4:3--Abraham was saved by faith alone.
Eph.2:8,9 emphasizes that we are all saved by faith and faith alone. If you teach another gospel the Bible says that you are accursed.