Should Welfare be a Life Style?

[righteousdude2]

Because I have an on line ministry, I am ministering to people from all around the world, and I've been shocked to discover just how many countries do not have a safety net [welfare, food stamps, unemployment or disability insurance] for their citizens.

With that said, do you think that those second, third and fourth-generation welfare recipients in America are sinful by taking advantage of the system by counting on it as a way of life, instead of finding work and making a decent living?

Has America gotten so soft that the entitled have been lulled into a place of thinking that they won't need to worry about where their next meal comes from or having a roof over their head because their rich uncle [Uncle Sam] has their back, for as long as they deem it convenient for them to live that way?

The truth of the matter is, the money the entitled are now calling their right to have because they are Americans is not really the governments' money .... it is our money.

I know because every time I look at the withholding section of my paycheck or retirement check, eat out, buy gas, purchase something from the store, or pay taxes to the feds and state in April each year, I am reminded that it is your money and mine and everyone else who lives and works in the USA's money!

If there is a large, and growing larger, portion of the American population that expects the free money, so be it! Even so, as a taxpaying American, I do not ant to become socially complacent and let the feds play loose with my tax dollars. I am tired of being lulled to sleep with the need to let people live off my dime, and be told to shut up and let it be, because it is the way, it is.

People in other countries have nothing to fall back on when a job ends. They will either lose the roof over their heads or starve, if they do not find a job and find it quickly.

So, the entitled Americans need to be more grateful to live in a country where just about everything is being handed to them, on the backs of hard-working Americans.

I think that if the rolls of the entitled continue to grow, eventually the back of the hard-working taxpayers will break, and something will have to give, and maybe; political correctness will no longer be: take care of the entitled - BUR rather - the entitled have a window of time to get their rears in gear and become productive citizens again! What has happened to having a job. working for what you have, and being proud of the paycheck you bring home?

Well, that is my opinion ... and I was wondering what yours might be ... Let's call this the separating of the liberals from the conservatives, or the wheat from the tares! Tell me what your views on growing welfare and entitled folks in America! :thumbs:

 

[plain_n_simple]

With that said, do you think that those second, third and fourth-generation welfare recipients in America are sinful by taking advantage of the system by counting on it as a way of life, instead of finding work and making a decent living?
I'm not looking at sin, or trying to define or label people as sinners in a given situation or group.
I am looking at potential future Christians who Jesus gave His life for.
I am looking at discouraged Christians who need a hand and a word of encouragement.
I cannot expect to minister to them if I look at them as cheaters or lazy people I need to correct. Jesus never did that.
Liberals and conservatives do not exist in the Kingdom here on earth or in heaven.
Love thinks the best.
Love never presumes evil.

 

[righteousdude2]

I agree somewhat....

With that said, do you think that those second, third and fourth-generation welfare recipients in America are sinful by taking advantage of the system by counting on it as a way of life, instead of finding work and making a decent living?
I'm not looking at sin, or trying to define or label people as sinners in a given situation or group.
I am looking at potential future Christians who Jesus gave His life for.
I am looking at discouraged Christians who need a hand and a word of encouragement.
I cannot expect to minister to them if I look at them as cheaters or lazy people I need to correct. Jesus never did that.
Liberals and conservatives do not exist in the Kingdom here on earth or in heaven.
Love thinks the best.
Love never presumes evil.

....but, Christians, and potential Christians, who have made a life of living off the hand [that feeds them] and not the ground they've been placed on, is a problem. And I say this out of love, brother, those third, fourth, fifth - and beyond - generation welfare recipients are sinning, here are but a view verses that speak about working, and working hard. Note: none of these say we are to work hard at not working!


Colossians 3:23 ESV "Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men.."

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV "For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."

Proverbs 14:23 ESV "In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty. "

Proverbs 16:3 ESV "Commit your work to the Lord, and your plans will be established."

Proverbs 10:4 ESV "A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich."

Ecclesiastes 9:10 ESV "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going."

Acts 20:35 ESV "In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Proverbs 12:11 ESV "Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits lacks sense."

Proverbs 21:25 ESV "The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor."

1 Corinthians 10:31 ESV "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

1 Timothy 5:8 ESV "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

Proverbs 13:4 ESV "The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied."
Psalm 128:2 ESV "You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands; you shall be blessed, and it shall be well with you."

Ephesians 4:28 ESV "Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need."

2 Thessalonians 3:6-9 ESV "Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate."

Proverbs 20:13 ESV "Love not sleep, lest you come to poverty; open your eyes, and you will have plenty of bread."

Proverbs 20:4 ESV "The sluggard does not plow in the autumn; he will seek at harvest and have nothing..."

If you want more, I can get them for you! Man was made to work. And we have been called to good stewardship.

Let me ask you this...you are running a mission for the homeless and unemployed. You take them in, feed them and maybe lead some to Jesus. How long do you allow the folks, saved or not, to remain in your shelter? Do you not have some form of job training and employment search program in place, so you can get these folks back on their feet in order to have room for the thousands of others waiting to get in your program?

I see nothing wrong with your premise, PNS, but, for man to sit idly by and never lift a hand to help himself ... well that is sin. It comes down to the sin of stealing from those who help you and you never give back! These folks are stealing from those who really do need help, but can't get help, because the prepetual needy have failed to make an effort to move from unrpoductive to productive in life.

 

[plain_n_simple]

You are using all the great verses but applying them to a worldly political system.

That system is law based, cannot bring true justice, and is apt to change always.
Thank God for them! Glad America has it.

But the poor are either hopeful or discouraged according to the current king's attitude.

Our King never changes!

So let's use the Kingdoms way to reach our poor.
Jesus did not say go Christianize the worlds methods, He said preach the kingdom.

Consider that the Holy Spirit operates in believers. He makes thing happen that look impossible.

Aimee McPherson started the biggest and most successful mission known during the 30's and 40's in Los Angeles.

All the missions and charity organizations had a huge problem in LA of un needy people and Mexican aliens taking advantage and it put some out of business.

They started to weed out the aliens and the Mexicans. Many missions dried up when they chose who was worthy and who was not.

Mrs McPherson told her staff to not turn one person away. She kept growing feeding thousands each day. Even though Mexicans and the un needy kept coming, God had more.
They had an employment service.
They took in thousand of unwanted babies with no questions asked.
The spirit of Christ reigns when we depend on Him.

That is unconditional love and will never fail.

Jesus said when you feed the poor, you are feeding him.
Qualifying a stranger is not the spirit of Christ.

 

[carpro]

You are using all the great verses but applying them to a worldly political system.

Scripture is meant to apply to all worldly matters.

 

[righteousdude2]

Thank you`

Scripture is meant to apply to all worldly matters.

:thumbsup::wavey:

 

[righteousdude2]

Huh?

You are using all the great verses but applying them to a worldly political system.

Excuse me .... but where are you getting that from? Scripture applies to everything we do in life. If your premise is true/valid that the follwing verse, no matter which version it is in, is not acceptable for us either?!


New International Version
Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.
New Living Translation
"Well, then," Jesus said, "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." His reply completely amazed them.

English Standard Version
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at him.

New American Standard Bible
And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then Jesus told them, "Give back to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

International Standard Version
So Jesus told them, "Give back to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were utterly amazed at him.

BTW - are you into Full Gospel? I noticed you quoting her plight with the needy in LA -

"Aimee McPherson started the biggest and most successful mission known during the 30's and 40's in Los Angeles.

All the missions and charity organizations had a huge problem in LA of un needy people and Mexican aliens taking advantage and it put some out of business.

They started to weed out the aliens and the Mexicans. Many missions dried up when they chose who was worthy and who was not.

Mrs McPherson told her staff to not turn one person away. She kept growing feeding thousands each day. Even though Mexicans and the un needy kept coming, God had more."

I am very familiar with skid row in LA after having volunteered at the LA Union Rescue Mission for more than 24 years! I cam to know a lot of those men and women on first name basis. What I hate to say is, that a ton of them were there for as long as I ministered there. I'd ask them why they didn't get a job and get off the streets, and I'd get a long stare, or a smile and a word of advice telling me that they knew no other way!

I found that so sad! The LAURM, Midnioght Mission, LA Mission, Fred Jordan Mission and others are all there as a safety net to the down-and-out. But there were those, who made this a way of life.

I remember on the holidays, how the missions would stagger the days, so the people could get a Thanksgiving, Christmas of Easter dinner at all of the missions in a one week period!

I had as much empahty towards the poor as the next man, but, I still say it is a sin to live a life where you have no goals or ambitions beyond where you'll get your next hand out!

The missions all offer excellent training programs,; counseling; medical care; clothing; and even long term dorms. But their goal is to get thsoe who want it, gainfully employed!

Brother, I know what I am talking about when it comes to this side of life, so I would have to say that I feel you are living on the wrong side og the rainbow!

You can give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. BUT teach that man to fish, and he'll be eating the rest of his life!

Still people have to want to get out of that rut, and when they don't have the desire to make something of themselves, I beg you to show me, where in Scripture they are excused?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Because I have an on line ministry, I am ministering to people from all around the world, and I've been shocked to discover just how many countries do not have a safety net [welfare, food stamps, unemployment or disability insurance] for their citizens.

Serious question - I am curious which countries do not have a 'safety net.' I am only familiar with Europe and most countries here have a much stronger net than the US has. I am guessing mostly third world countries?

Good question here Dude2.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

With that said, do you think that those second, third and fourth-generation welfare recipients in America are sinful by taking advantage of the system by counting on it as a way of life, instead of finding work and making a decent living?
I'm not looking at sin, or trying to define or label people as sinners in a given situation or group.
I am looking at potential future Christians who Jesus gave His life for.
I am looking at discouraged Christians who need a hand and a word of encouragement.
I cannot expect to minister to them if I look at them as cheaters or lazy people I need to correct. Jesus never did that.
Liberals and conservatives do not exist in the Kingdom here on earth or in heaven.
Love thinks the best.
Love never presumes evil.

Bingo...:thumbsup:

 

[plain_n_simple]

No I am not Full Gospel. I was showing an example of the true spirit of charity that does not exclude but includes, it does not qualify, it loves, and love always thinks the best. Love is not suspicious. Love does not expect return. If a man is hungry that is all I need to know. If he is deceptive, God knows and I will forgive him and hand him another sandwich. It is grace. Always give grace. All scripture is good for all, but the world rejects it and calls it foolish. The world is dark and operates differently than the kingdom. We are light, showing a better way than the worlds way. Seek the kingdom and His righteousness, not Seek sin and correct.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Ok now about Christians who are deliberately using the system in deception and could work?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Ok now about Christians who are deliberately using the system in deception and could work?

That is a big problem in quasi-socialist states like Ireland. It is relatively easy to sign on the the dole and unskilled jobs don't pay much more so there is a real temptation.

I think the Bible is clear - if we can work and work is available we work - full stop.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Absolutely, I think the idea getting toward was how do you deal with people who take advantage.

 

[righteousdude2]

Oh....too bad!

No I am not Full Gospel. I was showing an example of the true spirit of charity that does not exclude but includes, it does not qualify, it loves, and love always thinks the best. Love is not suspicious. Love does not expect return. If a man is hungry that is all I need to know. If he is deceptive, God knows and I will forgive him and hand him another sandwich. It is grace. Always give grace. All scripture is good for all, but the world rejects it and calls it foolish. The world is dark and operates differently than the kingdom. We are light, showing a better way than the worlds way. Seek the kingdom and His righteousness, not Seek sin and correct.

I was hoping I had fund another full Gospel Baptist brother. You know, anyone who knows that much about sister Aimee, has to have a little leaning that way, just sayin'! So, maybe you are a covert FG follower, and if you want to write me rpivately and come out of the coset, I will keep your secret between us. After all, what happenes in the PM, stays in the PM! :laugh:

 

[poncho]

Yes people do take advantage of the welfare system but by the same token those "decent" jobs they're all supposed to be finding have either been shipped overseas or turned into low wage jobs that don't even cover basic living expenses by the corporate monopolies like Walmart.

If we're going to tell people to go get "decent" jobs and get off welfare it would seem to me the Christian thing to do would be to take into consideration that there are less and less "decent" jobs available in this country everyday for them to find before we put our "better than thou" attitudes on display for the whole world to see.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I was hoping I had fund another full Gospel Baptist brother. You know, anyone who knows that much about sister Aimee, has to have a little leaning that way, just sayin'! So, maybe you are a covert FG follower, and if you want to write me rpivately and come out of the coset, I will keep your secret between us. After all, what happenes in the PM, stays in the PM! :laugh:

Haha your awesome and Ive always liked your spirit brother. I think most denominations and movements started out pure, but they get regulated over time and start to quench the Spirit. The Spirit moves on. Most every move of the Holy Spirit has resulted in a people that experienced miracles, healing, and many being saved. In almost every denomination the same happened when they were young. Baptist, Lutheran, Quaker, you name it. Aimee McPherson's was amazing and the first to use radio and media. Doubters at the time called her a tool of Satan for using radio. The same use media today lol.

 

[righteousdude2]

Ditto P_n_S

Haha your awesome and Ive always liked your spirit brother. I think most denominations and movements started out pure, but they get regulated over time and start to quench the Spirit. The Spirit moves on. Most every move of the Holy Spirit has resulted in a people that experienced miracles, healing, and many being saved. In almost every denomination the same happened when they were young. Baptist, Lutheran, Quaker, you name it. Aimee McPherson's was amazing and the first to use radio and media. Doubters at the time called her a tool of Satan for using radio. The same use media today lol.

:thumbs::applause::godisgood:

Wow! I just re-read my post to you, and I guess I forgot to run my edit and spell check software! Forgive me all! That was one mess of a post!

 

[SaggyWoman]

Should living extravagantly be a lifestyle?

 

[Salty]

...low wage jobs that don't even cover basic living expenses by the corporate monopolies like Walmart. ...

So are you saying the minium wage should be raised?

 

[poncho]

So are you saying the minium wage should be raised?

Are you being serious?

How about we dismantle the whole corporatist monopoly system of daylight theft that the government in concert with the global banks and multinational corporations have set up to rob everyone?

We're supposed to be looking out for the widows and orphans and helping those who can't help themselves right?

So how are we helping them by not discussing the real problem?

The real problem isn't welfare cheaters. The real problem is the welfare system and I'm not just talking about the lower end of it we always concentrate on. Or the "liberal" socialist side of it. I'm talking about the upper end of it. The welfare cheaters at the top of this system. The bankers, the multinational corporations and the US government they hold hostage through the creation of debt and monopoly business practices that put alot of good folks out on the street and making them beg the government for help.

So what if there are people who would take advantage of that system for a few bucks? They aren't the real problem. The parasitical elite and their bought and paid for politicians are the problem.

These are the real cheaters. The parasites that live long and prosper by feeding on the middle class and poor.

I know we all love to be able to look at another and crinkle our nose because this person might be taking some change out our pocket. But shouldn't we at least entertain the idea that hey maybe history is telling us something?

Like, there has always been an elite class that prey on other's to empower and enrich themselves at the population's expense?

Why do we always have to keep the discussion about who's getting more scraps from the bank's and corporation's table?

Seems logical to me that to solve a problem first you have to know what the problem is.

"The real problem are poor folks scamming for pocket change! How immoral these people are!"

Well, stop and think about it for a minute if scamming for pocket change is immoral how much so then is scamming for billions or even trillions?

So are you saying the minium wage should be raised?

C'mon, raise you're awareness level already.

The real question here is do we really want to solve this problem? Or do we just want to be able to keep crinlking our noses and pointing our fingers at the people the global elite's corrupt corporatist system is preying on the hardest?