OK....who in the world said it was his fault? Name one person.
Even though they flew over this area it does not justify shooting it down.Period.
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Here is a true Presidents response to Russia shooting down a plane
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
OK....who in the world said it was his fault? Name one person.
Even though they flew over this area it does not justify shooting it down.Period.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I wonder why you are not concerned about evangelizing the lost - knowing they are on the way to Hell.
Yes, I do shift the focus - to the most important things - when they are totally ignored.
Yes, politics is important - but its just a drop in the bucket compared to sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now, I just answered your question posed to me - Now let me ask you one - just how concerned are you about others going to Hell?
Consider I Cor 15:24
poncho
Well-Known Member
Evidently I'm more concerned about it than the average neocon follower here who constantly pleads with the government to send millions more there, on scant, contrived or non existent evidence.
Life is cheap to the "crazies" and the folks here who have yoked themselves to them and still go on passing themselves off as conservatives.
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Interesting how they have no concern for billions to kill people and also no concern about the lives of young Americans.
I bet they would change their minds if we brought the draft back and it was their kids or grand-kids being sent to the slaughter fields.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I believe they are concerned with the lives of young Americans Crabby. But not so much that they'll entertain the idea that maybe young Americans are just as duped or even more so than they are about who's interest they are really serving.
Who's interests are being served when congress decides in a "bipartisan fashion" to keep on funding and arming the very Islamic extremists they keep sending young Americans to fight against?
Who's interests are being served when the government and media both push the notion that we have to give up our rights and privacy and accept a growing militarized police state aimed at American citizens because the Islamic extremists congress keeps voting to support with our tax dollars and weapon systems are "out to kill us all"?
Who's interests are being served when Washington funds and arms Israel and the Qataris who are known to support Hamas?
Myself? I think Smedly Butler got it right way back in his day.
War Is A Racket!
I also believe history proves this to be true. But they can't change history so they have to do all they can to change the subject and the focus whenever it's brought up for discussion.
I also believe the neocons dishonor Ronald Reagan's name and memory by trying to equate their fearful paranoia and warmongering ways with his strong conservative leadership. The truth is those like myself who became conservatives because of Ronald Reagan's stance on limited constitutional government and dare to still believe in the same principles are looked upon as being un-American or wacky liberals or even communists for not adopting the ways of the neocons that co opted the republican party when G. W. Bush became president and Cheney and Rumsfeld and company turned into a nest of fear peddlers and warmongers. A page no doubt that was taken straight from the Nazi propaganda playbook. < -- link.
I doubt very much Reagan would approve of what the republicans and the fear peddlers who pose as "conservatives" have come to stand for these days.
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I figured as much.
I will deal with the dubious story you mentioned elsewhere. For starters, you might consider this:
http://rt.com/news/173964-ukraine-malaysia-intercepted-calls/
" Meanwhile, some alternative media outlets are already accusing Kiev authorities of cooking up a fake.
The commentators point out that the discussion between “Bes” and “Geranin” may well refer to the Ukrainian Su-25 jet, which militia members downed on June 16. "
Good grief. I meant "your bird" as in "the bird you mentioned in your post". This is getting assinine.
Yes, any source questioning your biases is questionable. Of course. You will always have the same views because you will always be reading the same sources.
The irony is all in your head, Back when I was a Hal Lindseyite, yes, I would've made the same point. But I started investigating that topic as well.
Epic, dude. See ya.
If you do have something substantial I will reply. But not for something along the lines of what you gave here.
------------------------------------
Edit:
Here is just one of many web sites that give a more plausible view of what is meant by "meschech". (I don't agree with all of Zaspel's futurist conclusions, but that is not the point here):
http://biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/eschatology/ezekiel.htm
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poncho
Well-Known Member
Oh now don't get upset that's just the neocon's way of saying howdy, you're an anti American liberal communist ignoramus for questioning the veracity of my corporate controlled source who's owner/boss is a member in good standing with the transnational corporate sponsored think tank called the Atlantic Council (aka international bankers and hedge fund managers R us) that has put out much of the baseless fear mongering Russian hating propaganda to make way for Washington and the IMF to loot Ukraine and the American tax payer and set the stage for war with Russia. That's all. :smilewinkgrin:
The abundance or lack of evidence doesn't mean much to the folks around here when it doesn't feed their fear their biases or their thirst for more war and bloodshed.
The abundance or lack of evidence doesn't mean much to the folks around here when it doesn't feed their fear their biases or their thirst for more war and bloodshed.
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It is really sad that so many Christians, citizens of a heavenly kingdom, are so easily tooled by political manipulators.
As aforementioned, there is a process that needs to take place to collect the data and form informed conclusions before rash action. It does appear quite clear, given the radio intercepts and missile trajectory combined with who had assets in this area, that pro-Russian separatists did fire this missile.
How our President will respond is not something that should happen overnight but should be tempered with time taken to accurately collect facts.
If our President doesn't respond with more than a press release this will be a national embarrassment. This is an egregious act that should have corresponding reciprocity from the international community. The US should be at the forefront of providing a response but one that is done in coordination with our allies and nations who have had this tragedy affect them. We cannot be lone rangers on this.
You know the real tragedy of this massacre is not just limited to the lives lost (though they are important.) It appears that several dozen leading AIDS researchers have been lost in this attack. Some are saying that their collective losses will set back AIDS research by several years. This is such a terrible thing.
How our President will respond is not something that should happen overnight but should be tempered with time taken to accurately collect facts.
If our President doesn't respond with more than a press release this will be a national embarrassment. This is an egregious act that should have corresponding reciprocity from the international community. The US should be at the forefront of providing a response but one that is done in coordination with our allies and nations who have had this tragedy affect them. We cannot be lone rangers on this.
You know the real tragedy of this massacre is not just limited to the lives lost (though they are important.) It appears that several dozen leading AIDS researchers have been lost in this attack. Some are saying that their collective losses will set back AIDS research by several years. This is such a terrible thing.
Incredible.
The radio intercepts are unverified as to their application to the current situation. Also, the Ukrainian military not only had the equipment, they gave radioactive evidence of having used it at the very time.
But to know these things you would need to widen your fact-finding net.
Egregious act it is. The question is who are the egregious actors?
poncho
Well-Known Member
Manipulation of the masses by the ruling elite became a science long ago.
“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda 1928
People know this to be true yet they still let themselves be manipulated by those who Samuel Adams referred to as "designing men".
“"The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men." -Samuel Adams”
Can't say we weren't forewarned.
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Exactly. It goes back to the times of your Proverb verse, if not even further.
I can tell by your various posts that you are fairly well-read in this subject matter. Good for you. Pursuing the truth can be a lonely proposition, but very rewarding.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
That's what anger does. It blinds people so much to the truth that they refuse to hear anything but what has been assigned as the party line talking points.
You'll be dismissed as every ugly name that they can get away with posting. And they will purport that their nastiness is because you're clueless. When it's rally about them just being angry that the politics they are seeing isn't giving them what they want.
It's a divisive trick of the devil and folks can't even see it because they are so caught up in politics.
If the enemy can get Christians worked up about politics and disrespecting and dishonoring the authority that God has placed over us, then the focus won't be on sharing the Gospel . And after spreading the type of nastiness that's seen on this board about politics, the Gospel wouldn't be very well received by those outside the church after seeing just what is really important to the church.
For someone not caught up in politics, you sure talk about it a lot. :laugh:
Radioactive evidence being hard to come by these days...
Curious that these separatists are withholding access to the crash site from investigators. If they don't have anything to hide, why prohibit international observers access? If they did, in fact, not shoot down this plane, why not allow unfettered access to investigators?
Often the actions of the guilty party are to limit access, remove evidence, and deny inquiry. I would too if I had blood on my hands.
asterisktom said:
So you're saying this wasn't an egregious act? That it is entirely okay to shoot down a civilian airliner? In reading your multiple posts here and in the thread you've just started there continues to be no concern for the reality that a civilian airline has been shot from sky, but plenty of concern to make sure we all know it couldn't have been the separatists.
As you'll note in the remainder of the comments I made which you haven't noted, I'm agreeing that the President is within his leadership to wait a few days and allow the entire intelligence process to continue and find some answers. That seems to be the point being missed.
The problem is that is not what he has done.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Yeah well I went through my paradigm shift some years back. Right after the neocons co opted the republican party and turned it into the paranoid endless war party. So much for the conservative limited government movement. Now I see very few conservatives and liberals in this country anymore. Seems like they've all been replaced with authoritarians squabbling over who should be in charge of increasing the size and scope of government.
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I said:
"Egregious act it is. The question is who are the egregious actors? "
And you said:
Good grief, Preaching, read for context, not ammunition.
If you disagree with me on the point where I agree with you I may as well be talking to my stapler.
"Egregious act it is. The question is who are the egregious actors? "
And you said:
preachinjesus said:
Good grief, Preaching, read for context, not ammunition.
If you disagree with me on the point where I agree with you I may as well be talking to my stapler.
I can't get Youtube over here in China, but I think I remember the gist of what he said. By the way, in the interest of balance, we should also consider another of Reagan's comments in 1988 concerning the US military's accidental downing of an Iranian plane.
He said it was an "understandable accident".
But when there is a chance to blame Russia, or pro-Russia separatists (that is, citizens of the Ukraine who just want their country back), it is clearly a "heinous act".
If our military is involved in downing a plane, as they were in 1988, it is excused. But if other nations can be targeted we speak of "deliberate downing", as Reagan said of the KAL 007 in 1983. Similarly, the Ukrainian usurper President Petro Poroshenko speaks of the recent downing as a "terrorist act".
It is disheartening that more people don't see through the duplicity of all this. But people don't believe what they don't want to believe.