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Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 3, 2017.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Hosea 4:6; John 3:19 KJB. All are still responsible before God, even for what they could have known, but simply refused to know or see, some willingly closing their eyes, Matthew 13:15 KJB. Meanwhile, I am clean from anyone's blood here, having given the evidence. If any choose not to read, they have chosen none the less.
     
    #21 One Baptism, Jul 6, 2017
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Romans 3:19-20 all are accountable before God.

    Col 2 - "our certificate of debt" was nailed to the cross -- our debt of sin. That was the whole point.

    13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

    What decrees are in our "certificate of debt" ? Answer Romans 6:23 "The wages of sin is death"
     
    #22 BobRyan, Jul 6, 2017
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Thanks for clearing up what "it" is because the OP can't seem to get to the point — and it's probably the wrong point at that, if he ever gets around to it.
     
    #23 rsr, Jul 6, 2017
  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Happy to be of service. :)
     
    #24 Reformed, Jul 6, 2017
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Romans 3:19-20 all are accountable before God.

    Col 2 - "our certificate of debt" was nailed to the cross -- our debt of sin. That was the whole point.

    13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

    What decrees are in our "certificate of debt" ? Answer Romans 6:23 "The wages of sin is death"

    True - he paid the debt that His Law demands. But it is "still sin" to take God's name in vain and murder and worship idols.

    "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" still -- 1 John 3:4

    "I write these things that you sin not" 1 John 2:2.

    Romans 6 goes into a lot of detail about that topic.
     
    #25 BobRyan, Jul 7, 2017
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exactly. And not only was this Calvin's conclusion (Penal Substitution) but it was also Luther's conclusion (Substitution/Satisfaction). Before the reformation we see this in both Anselem's Satisfaction Theory and Aquinas' take on that theory. I think we can see this in just about every theory of Atonement within the Church (the focus and workings may be different, but they all seem to view the Cross as the place where God dealt with sin and decrees against us nailed on the tree). Oddly enough, I never thought that "it" was a great mystery. It seems past generations dealt with the passage without much difficulty.
     
    #26 JonC, Jul 7, 2017
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    "Mr. Owl, how many words does it take to say the law gives life?"

    "Let's find out . . . a-one, a-two, a-three, . . . "

    (Some time later) " . . . a-two thousand and 31, a-two thousand and 32 . . . Oh hang it all on a tree!"

    And so it was written. And so it was done.


    In all seriousness: Jesus is the personification of the law (ALL of it) and He was nailed to the Cross, taking its indictment and curse out of the way, becoming a curse for us.

    Fortunately it takes few words to break the shackles of bondage that Obie (O.B. [One Baptism]) attempted to fasten upon us . . . Gal 3:21 for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
     
    #27 Aaron, Jul 7, 2017
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1 John 2:2 'He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the WHOLE WORLD"

    Substitutionary atoning sacrifice.
     
    #28 BobRyan, Jul 7, 2017
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    No matter because it is still sin to take God's name in vain and in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" -- STILL 1 John 3:4
     
    #29 BobRyan, Jul 7, 2017
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. Atonement itself implies a sense of substitution (at a minimum, something is made in reparation for something else). And the Cross was an atoning sacrifice, or propitiation, for the sins of mankind.
     
    #30 JonC, Jul 7, 2017
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    And your point is . . . ?
     
    #31 Aaron, Jul 7, 2017
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "Do then then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God" Rom 3:31
     
    #32 BobRyan, Jul 7, 2017
  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    We do see it in every theory of the Atonement, but the conclusions are not always the same. For instance, the Christus Victor (or Ransom theory) view of the atonement places its emphasis on Christ defeating Satan, while ignoring the problem of sin, and the payment God requires for it. There seems to be a new interest in a bloodless atonement, found mostly among progressives. I know more than a few young and restless types who think they are going to find their ideal in Greek Orthodoxy, although they are ignorant of the yoke they are placing on themselves.
     
    #33 Reformed, Jul 7, 2017
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Lol. No one said there is no law. What we said was there is no condemnation. Not for those in Christ Jesus.

    But for whom was the law made? Was it made for the righteous, or was it made for the sinner? And if we are children and partakers of the divine nature, we need no law. Our righteousness is in Christ Jesus, and who shall lay anything to our charge?

    There is no law in Heaven. Christ is not a high priest according to any commandment. He is a high priest by the power of an endless life.
     
    #34 Aaron, Jul 7, 2017
  15. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    As stated before, a straw-man is foisted (once more: righteousness does not come by any law), but moving beyond it.

    Let's run with what was replied, and take this to it's furtherest conclusion.

    Jesus is the living law - yep.

    Jesus had fallen sinful flesh, for that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit, and spirit does not have flesh and bones. Jesus truly being made a curse for us, for it was that flesh that was nailed.

    The Ten Commandments are not carnal, but spiritual (Romans 7:14 KJB).

    Yet, it was said that the Ten Commandments are nailed to the cross, because Jesus flesh was nailed to the cross. ...let's briefly run this to the conclusion.

    Jesus died. Did the law die, or did sinful man die? (Romans 7:1-6 KJB)

    Moreover, for those three days, that Jesus lay in the tomb, was there no law in all the universe governing anything, not even morality? Sin ceased to exist, since sin is the transgression of the law (always, 1 John 3:4 KJB)?

    What about when Jesus, the Living Law, resurrected, and is now eternally glorified, never to die again?

    Is not the Law also resurrected and eternally glorified (even more exceedingly glorious, Isaiah 42:21; 2 Corinthians 3:11 KJB) in ascended into the highest heaven?

    It was said that the Law was nailed to the cross, but where then is its burial, resurrection, ascension and eternal glorification in the highest heaven?
     
    #35 One Baptism, Jul 7, 2017
  16. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Wow.
     
    #36 One Baptism, Jul 7, 2017
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Oh, btw, can anyone show me where there are any curses in the Ten Commandments? Are they not all instead precious promises? They even begin with saving grace being delivered from bondage.
     
    #37 One Baptism, Jul 7, 2017
  18. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Yes, Jesus is the perfect atoning sacrifice at Calvary, but that is only one portion of what is required. The day of atonement was yet future from that day (Daniel 8:13-14,26 KJB). There are differing atonements to be made, according to Leviticus 4 & 16.

    Again, the sanctuary (Psalms 77:13 KJB), is a whole system of Truth.

    For instance, salvation is not merely in the sacrifice and death of Jesus, but also His burial, and also His resurrection, yea, even in His whole life, and in His ascension, and the continuing work He does in the True heavenly sanctuary, in both the holy and most holy places.

    It is not enough to be "bought" by perfection, we must be "brought" back to perfection, see Leviticus 25.
     
    #38 One Baptism, Jul 7, 2017
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All and Any who fail to keep all of them perfectly are under the Curse of God....
    Save for those who are now in Christ, as God sees us in Him as perfect keepers of his Law!
     
    #39 Yeshua1, Jul 7, 2017
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It is interesting that our focus is often on Christ's death while Paul looked so often at the Resurrection and our hope fulfilled.
     
    #40 JonC, Jul 7, 2017
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