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Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 3, 2017.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Well they are literal books but probably not paper and ink -- just as books today can be in the computer (instead of on papyrus, or wood + cotton or ...).

    The purpose of such tangible devices is not so God "Can remember" or know something. Rather it is because the judgment is a "teaching moment" and as we see in Daniel 7 - there are myriads and myriads there in the judgment room for that "teaching".
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You do not hold to the heretical doctrine of Investigative Judgement do you?
     
  3. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way [Psalms 77:13; John 14:6 KJB] which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

    Investigative Judgment, is the first phase of the judgment, taking place now. It is typified all throughout the scripture [KJB]:

    In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam had been warned, and he warning her, and yet Adam followed in the sin, and after this, "... they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day ...", and God [Jesus] investigates, inquiring and asking questions (Genesis 3:9-18; not that God Himself doesn't know, but is for the benefit of the unfallen angels, Adam, Eve, and for us). Gid had already warned them in advance of the sentence for sin/transgression (Genesis 2:17 KJB). Adam and Eve claimed to be followers of God, but yet there was sin, and so God, after investigation, carries out the sentence, even though they had hope (Genesis 3:15 KJB).

    In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship Gid, but after time passed, Cain decided to have his own Gospel, of works, and eventually became a child of that wicked one, Satan. Both Cain and Abel knew of the Gospel (Genesis 3:15 KJB). Yet Cain killed Abel, who was righteous, Gid comes down and asks, inquires, investigates Cain and the events, before the sentence (its execution) was carried out. This is exactly like a court trial in each instance.

    In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming grossly wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, they were already becoming corrupt through intermarriage with the children of Cain. God sent the Gospel through Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, and finally Noah, that preacher of righteousness. God comes down and sees, investigates, and speaks through Noah, and finally sentence is carried out, after a separation process.

    In Genesis 10-11, we see that the people were again in rebellion to God's mercy, promises, grace, live and Gospel, and they attempt to build a tower to heaven (even a spiritual seige tower, climbing up some other way), and God comes down and sees, investigates, and looks, before an execution of judgment, and separation and scattering.

    In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet the people of Sodom, in spite of the so great salvation, continued in sin, and so God comes down to see, investigate judge (even the three messengers, like Revelation 14:6-12 KJB), separation, and executes judgment, and even Lot's wife turned back, losing all. Homosexuality had knocked on the door of the church, desiring to enter in (as it was in the days of Noe, and so too now),time is almost up, for the devil attacks the two great twin institutions if Genesis, first Marriage, then Sabbath. Laws are already in effect for the first, then will soon follow (as a twin) the birth of the National Sunday and afterward, anti-Sabbath law.

    ...ect...

    Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that the peoples Israel, and all that claimed to follow JEHOVAH God, was to enter into a specific time called the Day of Atonement, the 10th day of the 7th month (Ethanim), wherein the high priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breastplate of Judgment, the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in atonement with God, having confessed and forsaken all sin (1 John 3:4 KJB), would be cut off forever, no matter how many times in the year they had brought a daily. There was an investigation, a searching of heart, a separation, and execution of judgment.

    In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon (type of Jesus Christ) having an investigation between two persons (women, type of church) over a dead child (Christ) and a living child (Christ) to see who really loved the child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, before others, gives a test to prove the true loyalty of the true mother (church, Revelation 12 KJB) and the corruption of the heart of the false mother (Revelation 17 KJB). Sentence is afterward carried out. Reward given.

    In Ezra 2, we see the remnant of the peoples Israel coming out of Babylon, and a priestly role was taken, an investigation, to see who could prove their lineage, and those not found in the book, who could not prove their "blood", were cast out of the priesthood, sentence followed.

    In Daniel, throughout, but especially in chapter 7, where after Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan Rome, and during the long phases of Papal Rome, before the total destruction of that Antichrist system, God, in heaven sits, opens the books, before thousands of angels, investigates before execution is carried out after the close of the Gospel. See Daniel 8-12 also.

    In Malachi 3, we see God sitting, refining his children, separating silver from dross, before execution of judgment

    In the Gospels, God comes down (Jesus), investigates his own people, tests them, and after they stone Stephen (AD34, close of the final and 70th week of Daniel 8 KJB), that very generation perished in AD 70 in execution of the judgment that Jesus said would come.

    In Revelation 9:13-15, Revelation 14:6-12 KJB, the investigative judgment goes forward at a very specific date, beginning with the dead professing, while the everlasting Gospel still has time to go forward, soon judgement will pass to the living, at the NSL (Revelation 2, 13, 17 KJB).

    More examples are in scripture, this is a sample list across the whole.

    After the way which they call heresy ...

    Proverbs 28:5 KJB - Evil men understand not judgment ...
     
    #63 One Baptism, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Furthermore, on the three phases of the judgment,

    [1] Investigative, with angels,
    [2] 1,000 years jugment given to saints, examination
    [3] Great White Throne, executive
    Let's consider Judgment. The Holy Spirit, through Luke, and Paul, clearly detail that the Judgment was yet future [“to come”], for they knew that the Day of Atonement, wherein the Highpriest with the Breastplate of Judgment [Exodus 28:15,29,30 KJB] goes into the Most Holy place to bear the professed people [not the wicked] upon the breast, and to determine who would be “left”, “remain” in the Book of Life and who would be “taken away”, “cut off”, “blotted out of the book of Life”:

    Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.​

    There are 3/3's of men, per Revelation 9:15, KJB which is a direct reference to Ezekiel 9, in which there are 2 groups “in the city” [written in Heaven, Luke 10:20; Hebrews 12:23], the [1] wheat, sheep, wise, and the [2] tares, goats, foolish, … [Matthew 22:9-13, 24:48-51, 25:3,8,11-12,30 etc] and 1 group already placed outside of the city, the [3] wicked, already condemned [John 3:18; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Hebrews 11:7, etc], which have never professed.

    There are differing phases and times of Judgment, per scripture:

    First, we consider a “judgment” [“his”] begins at a specific time [“the hour … is come ...”] and goes on while the Everlasting Gospel is preached:

    Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

    Notice, that in those two texts, we see that there was a specific moment in time in which the “judgment” therein was to begin, and to go forward, and to only continue until a certain time, that is while the “Everlasting Gospel” was still being preached, ie until the Close of Probation [Revelation 22:11; Matthew 25:10, etc], yet once the “mystery of God” [the Gospel] was “finished”, this judgment would be over:

    Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

    The hour of “his judgment” in Revelation 14 and Daniel 7 & 12, is specific, in that it concerns God over his professed people to separate wheat and chaff, and the angels [which are not omniscient to read the heart] are the ones [ten thousand times ten thousand] searching the books of Heaven [thus this judgment is for them, the 1,000 years judgment for us], including the Book of Life, and only those not “blotted out”, but are rather “found” therein [by search] are to remain and not be “cut off” [Leviticus 23:28-29]:

    Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

    Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Deuteronomy 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.

    Psalms 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
    Psalms 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

    Psalms 9:4 For thou hast maintained my right and my cause; thou satest in the throne judging right.
    Psalms 9:7 But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment.
    Psalms 9:12 When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.

    Psalms 37:33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

    Psalms 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

    Psals 135:14 For the LORD will judge his people, and he will repent himself concerning his servants.

    Ecclesiastes 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
    Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Isaiah 3:14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.

    Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

    Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
    1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
    1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

    2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. [For judgment takes place before reward is meted out, Revelation 22:12, etc.]

    Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

    James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

    1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.​
     
  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Continuing on the phases of Judgment:

    The professed dead, being judged first in this “day of atonement” [beginning October 22 1844]; Daniel 7:9-10:

    Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (first the natural, then the spiritual - 1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB)​

    Then at the National [later International] Sunday Law, the 'test' [Revelation 3:10] that comes upon all the living world, does this judgment pass from the dead to the living:

    Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.​

    Further we see an “execut[ive] judgment” phase and time, held in two steps [2nd and 3rd advent]:

    Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.​

    Furthermore, we see a “judgment” taken up after the close/finishing of the “Everlasting Gospel”, the “mystery of God”, and thus begins at the 1,000 years:

    1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
    1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    Psalms 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
    Psalms 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;
    Psalms 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
    Psalms 149:8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
    Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.​

    Notice carefully the connecting verse:

    Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    [1] “... Until ...” [508/538 to 1798 - 1844, see Daniel 7:21,25, 12:7,11,12, Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24, etc]

    [2] “... the Ancient of days came ...” [that is, God the Father, came from the Holy [Revelation 4-5] to the Most Holy place of Heaven, see Daniel 7:9-10; in October 22 1844; Daniel 8:13-14,26, Revelation 3:7,8, 9:15, etc up to the second coming and the beginning of the 1,000 years of Revelation 20]

    [3] “... and judgment was given to the saints of the most High ...” [during the 1,000 years, per Revelation 20:4, “judgment was given unto them”, see also Isaiah 24]

    [4] “... and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.” [end of the 1,000 years, the “time” specified, in which we inherit the Earth made new, New Heavens/New Earth, etc]​

    Then finally after the 3rd Advent [after the 1,000 years], the “Great White Throne” “judgment”, against all of the wicked who have ever lived [the last step of the executive judgment]:

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.('them', context, ie. the lost, finally impenitent)​

    There was “no place”, “found” written in the books... and thus they could not be in Heaven, nor earth [Daniel 2:35].
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You do know the the Investigative judgement heresy of the false prophetess denies the sufficiency of the Cross of Christ!
     
  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Coming to each point specifically, such as Malachi 3:6 KJB

    Malachi 3:6 does not show that God does not change his mind, but speaks of His eternal and unchanging character [His Law, Psalms 40:8; Exodus 33:13-23, 34:1-9; Exodus 20:1-17 KJB].

    For God, changing His mind, see Genesis 6:6; Exodus 32:14; Numbers 14:1-45; Judges 2:18; 1 Samuel 15:35; 2 Samuel 24:16; 1 Chronicles 21:15; Psalms 106:45; Jeremiah 26:13,19; Amos 7:3,6; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9,10, etc.

    God takes into account, our choices in response to Him, based upon the condition He sets [such as timing, order, obedience/disobedience, etc] - Deuteronomy 28:1-68; Jeremiah 18:8,10 KJB, etc.

    Yes, Matthew 18 is given as parable, but this does not negate its specific instruction, in that forgiveness can be revoked, and sins once removed [covered by the blood], can be reinstated. Matthew 18 is in the contextual setting of Leviticus 16 [and 23], the Day of Atonement, when God takes "account" of "His servants".

    Simply saying 'It's a parable', doesn't negate the truth that it teaches therein.

    Forgiveness of God is directly tied to our own forgiveness of others, Matthew 6:12; Luke 11:4 KJB, thus conditional, not unconditional.

    Jesus is that "certain" King, even of all the earth, and Matthew 18 is in the conext of Future events. Jesus is the wonderful numberer, the great accountant.

    Forgiveness from God gave us, who were forgiven the great debt, time to demonstrate [a probation, like earthly kings mimick] if we would be changed by so great Grace. Names can be, and will be blotted out of the book of life. It is even now happening, Daniel 7:9,10; Revelation 14:6-12 KJB.

    Matthew 18; Leviticus 16 & 23, are not the only places which specifically show this, and Leviticus 16 & 23 are no parable, but the type, to the greater antitype now taking place.

    2 Peter 2, shows the same, see vss 2:20-23 KJB.

    The OSAS type of religion is deadly. Salvation, and abiding in God, standing with God, is eternally relational. Ask the scripture of Lucifer, King Saul, etc. Ask of Adam, David, etc.
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Wild assertions, aren't documented evidences. As to the last part, in regards 'the sufficiency of the Cross of Christ', no, those two items, investigative judgment and sister White as messenger of the LORD, do not deny any such thing. But people refuse to diligently read, as over and over again, stated in this thread.

    As for sister White, please be specific, in another thread please, but before you do, consider the actual evidences - www.pearltrees.com/awhn/ellen-g-white/id1593382

    Cross [Passover] is the all sufficient sacrifice. Now, what needed to happen with that sacrifice, in regards the highpriest [Day of Atonement]?
     
  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Before I respond more fully to this 'point', I would like to ask you, do you agree that Matthew 7:23 & 1 John 2:19, are speaking about two differing types of persons, namely:

    [1] professors of Christ Jesus, who profess outwardly unto the end, though they are false in heart, ie hypocrites

    [2] professors of Christ Jesus, who once professed, but who for their own choice, in the spite of the grace of God, then chose self over Christ Jesus, and walk away from the relationship, joining the ranks of the overt wicked.​

    Do you agree? Yes/No. If yes, I will then continue the response.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Will there be any christians who will lose their salvation in that investigative judgement then? What about those who rejected the Sabbath and teachings of Ellen White?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Rge words of the SDA themselvescondemned them as being a fas;e church/false Gospel, sane as that of the RCC!

    Seventh-Day Adventists Condemn Themselves by Their Own Words!

      • WHAT ADVENTISM TEACHES: The SDA doctrine of salvation documented. Consider carefully the following Seventh-day Adventist statements relative to salvation. While professing to uphold salvation by grace alone through faith alone, they actually redefine this contrary to Apostolic revelation. The result is a false gospel that subtly mixes grace and law.
      • From a SDA tract -Deceptively titled Saved By Grace: "Christ says to every man in this world what He said to the rich young ruler: If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments, Matthew 19:17. In other words, THE STANDARD FOR ADMISSION INTO HEAVEN IS A CHARACTER BUILT ACCORDING TO THE TEN SPECIFICATIONS, OR COMMANDMENTS, OF GOD'S LAW. ... He can lift you up to the place where the requirements of the law are met in you. ... THE MASTER BUILDER WILL STAND RIGHT WITH YOU AND IN YOU, AND SEE TO IT PERSONALLY THAT YOUR LIFE COMES UP TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF GOD'S LAW" (Charles T. Everson, Saved By Grace, pp. 45-46).
      • From SDA correspondence courses. "It is not the work of the gospel to weaken the claims of God's holy law, but to bring men up to where they can keep its precepts" (Prophetic Guidance Correspondence Course, Lesson 10, p. 36).
      • "Do you want to be a Christian? ... The steps to Christ are few and plain and easy to understand, and we will turn to God's Guidebook now for information. ... Believe; that's the first step toward becoming a Christian. ... the second step is repentance ... repentance is simply being sorry for our sins and putting them away ... the next step in becoming a Christian isconfession ... real repentance and confession mean not only to stop sinning, but to do everything possible to make past wrongs right ... The next step isbaptism, and the proof for that is found in Acts 2:38-39 ... Fifth, obedience through Christ in us ... So we have clearly outlined the steps that we need to take in order to become a Christian: to believe in God, to repent of and to confess our sins, to be baptized, AND TO OBEY ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. ... He may stumble and fall, but he gets up and presses forward again, determined to overcome by God's enabling power. Such a fall is not counted against him when he repents and asks forgiveness and divine help to live the right life" (New Life Voice of Prophecy Guide, #12).
      • "Before Christ comes a second time to take us to His Father's house in heaven above, we must allow Him to conquer sin in our lives. ... Because in this life we have chosen to accept these lovely graces of Christ as our own, the sudden transformation at Jesus' appearing will seal our characters. ... ONLY THOSE WHO LIVE THE JESUS-LIFE CAN BE FREED FROM SIN. ... Jesus counseled the rich man who was seeking eternal life, If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. ... It is Jesus who delivers us from sin but not in sin. WE MUST ACCEPT HIM AND THROUGH HIS POWER IN US BE SEPARATED FROM THE IMPURE, THE UNHOLY, THE DEFILING ALL DISOBEDIENCE TO THE COMMANDMENTS" (New Life Guides, #10).
      • From a SDA catechism. " ... We were slaves to sin. Jesus came down and suffered with us, and for us, and delivered us. As we behold Him in His word, and in prayer and meditation, and serve Him in the person of others, WE MAY BE CHANGED MORE AND MORE INTO THE GLORY OF HIS LIKENESS; THEN, IF FAITHFUL, WE SHALL SOMEDAY SEE HIM FACE TO FACE" (Bible Footlights, 1960, p. 17).
      • From a SDA doctrinal study. "To whom will God impart immortality? To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality (Rom. 2:7). What shall be their reward? Eternal life (Rom. 2:7). Upon what conditions may men obtain this blessing? Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life (1 Tim. 6:12). ... Will a man's final destiny be in accordance with the life he has lived? Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap (Gal. 6:7)" (C.B. Haynes, When A Man Dies, pp. 46-47).
      • From one of Ellen White's major works. While discussing the doctrine of Investigative Judgment, Mrs. White presents the following teaching about salvation: "The righteous dead will not be raised until after the judgment at which they are counted worthy of the resurrection of life. ... As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. ... every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. ... all who would have their names retained in the book of life should now, in the few remaining days of their probation, afflict their souls before God by sorrow for sin and true repentance ... the work of preparation is an individual work. We are not saved in groups. The purity and devotion of one will not offset the want of these qualities in another" (Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 425, 431).
    www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Seventh-Day%20Adventist/hidden.htm
     
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    They are two different types of response to Christ: the one makes a confession of faith but denies Him in his life. The other makes a confession of faith and then openly departs from it.

    My point is that both types of person never belonged to Christ.

    I agree with you. While there is a sense in which it is true (John 10:27-28), it falls far short of the truth. The Puritans spoke of the Perseverance of the Saints, which is much better. If one doesn't persevere, it is evidence that one is not a saint. Those who make a profession of faith and then suppose that they can live like the devil were never Christians and one day they will hear the dread words of Matthew 7:23 pronounced to them. God writes His laws on the hearts of believers.

    I will come back on your post #67 in a few days. It raises some very important points with reference to the Immutability of God.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The real dangerous form of OSAS is when those holding to eternal security some times stop right there, for if they keep teaching on what is to accompanying being saved, and how we should mature now, would safeguard it. the problem is mire to me in its application than its theology!
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What about post# 71?
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for listing the various texts where God appears to change His mind. I note that you did not list the texts which show that He does not change His mind. Here are a few: Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Job 23:13; Psalm 33:11; Romans 11:29; Hebrews 6:17 etc.

    So how can we reconcile these two lists of Scriptures, because it is impossible that they could in reality contradict one another. We even have seemingly opposing texts in the same chapter.
    1 Samuel 15:10-11. 'Now the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, "I greatly regret that I have set Paul up as king, for He has turned away from following Me."'
    1 Samuel 15:29. 'And also the Strength of Israel will not lie or relent. For He is not a man that He should relent.'
    The word that the NKJV translates as 'regret' and 'relent' and which the KJV translates as 'repent' is the same in both verses, nacham.

    So how do we square these verses? The explanation is very simple. When the Scripture speaks of God, it very often accommodates itself to our understanding. Thus, although He is 'Spirit' (John 4:24), He is frequently described as having eyes, ears, hands etc. He speaks of Himself as 'waking' (Psalm 78:65) and 'rising early' (Jeremiah 7:13 etc.) although we are told that He 'neither slumbers nor sleeps' (Psalm 121:4). We read that God 'rested' on the sixth day of creation, although Isaiah 40:28 tells us that He 'neither faints nor is weary.' When God institutes a change in His dealings with men, He sometimes describes it as 'repenting,' but the term is an anthropomorphism-- God is representing His actions in terms that simple people can understand. But when God raised Joseph as his father's favourite, then had him sold into slavery, then thrown into prison and finally raised up as Pharaoh's right-hand man, He was not constantly changing His mind; He had one plan with several phases (cf. Genesis 50:10).

    God knows the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10) and declares it. Men change their minds due to lack of foresight, lack of counsel or lack of power. God is subject to none of these things. He is omniscient and omnipotent, so there is never any need for Him to revise His plans. 'The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations' (Psalm 33:11).
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Do you still hold the the false doctrine of "proof by name calling"? A left over from the dark ages.

    Please join us in the 21st century - "proof by name calling" is dead in this century.

    Two simple questions for you when you are done with you in-depth study of "name calling"

    1. You did or did not actually "read" Daniel 7??

    2. You did or did not actually "read" Romans 2??.j

    BTW - just how far are we supposed to stray from the actual subject of this thread?
     
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    What was thoroughly presented and documented in regards the phrase, "the handwriting of ordinances", was given in the following:

    &
    These have not been directly addressed, yet.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    See post # 71!
     
  19. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Not only the last posts - Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

    but, furthermore, getting back, even moreso to the OP posts, the following, in addition to my last response, was not directly addressed either, in any part of this thread; being the direct connections between Colossians 2, Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9, as demonstrated here:

    Private interpretations and/or private translations of Colossians 2, hold 0 [ZERO] weight. For anyone to simply assert that "the handwriting of ordinances" is the 'sin debt', or 'certificate of debt [of sin]', none of which is represented in the Koine Greek [at all], nor defined as such in all of scripture [KJB], is folly, and very, very dangerous, according to Psalms 77:13 KJB, for such teaching negates the specific events, seasons and timing that Christ Jesus was to fulfill in regards Leviticus 23 & 16 & Hebrews [in regards the Real Tabernacle, the Heavenly Sanctuary above], & Revelation.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    See point# 71!
     
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