Am I Calvinist or Arminian?

[Reformed1689]

Before I was saved, I heard the “gospel” over a dozen times and even read Genesis and Matthew for myself ... only to conclude that Christianity was utter nonsense. So I think that I disagree with both you and InTheLight. The unsaved can certainly understand the words and grasp the concept, but without God’s Grace it really is just “foolishness” to a fallen man. [In my personal experience.]

You and I are saying the same thing. That's why I say a rudimentary understanding.

 

[utilyan]

It doesn't matter what someone says. What matters is the effect. You can say you aren't saving yourself all you want, but if your salvation hinges upon something that you must do, then who's doing it?

Like giving a glass of water to someone dying of thirst. It can be refused + He didn't save himself.


I bet you told your parents you raised and fed yourself as a infant.

 

[Aaron]

Like giving a glass of water to someone dying of thirst. It can be refused + He didn't save himself.


I bet you told your parents you raised and fed yourself as a infant.

One's birth is an eminent picture of salvation. I certainly had no choice the matter. Did you?

But in the case of your thirsty man refusing water: Why will one refuse and another accept? In the case of thirsty men, it's because one is sane and the other is not. In the case of salvation, it's because one is better and does better than the other. If you say that's not true, then you are arguing Calvinism, that God has given grace to one that He has not given to the other.

 

[utilyan]

One's birth is an eminent picture of salvation. I certainly had no choice the matter. Did you?

But in the case of your thirsty man refusing water: Why will one refuse and another accept? In the case of thirsty men, it's because one is sane and the other is not. In the case of salvation, it's because one is better and does better than the other. If you say that's not true, then you are arguing Calvinism, that God has given grace to one that He has not given to the other.

"One's birth is an eminent picture of salvation. I certainly had no choice the matter. Did you? "
I didn't decide my birth, And God chose to baptize me too.


"In the case of salvation, it's because one is better and does better than the other."

Wow that's exactly how Jesus put it! With countless examples.

Matthew 7

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

You think there is more saved wise men who build on rocks or fools who build on sand?

God didn't decide for you to build your house on sand. You did that by yourself. Quit blaming God for your mistakes.

 

[Yeshua1]

"One's birth is an eminent picture of salvation. I certainly had no choice the matter. Did you? "
I didn't decide my birth, And God chose to baptize me too.


"In the case of salvation, it's because one is better and does better than the other."

Wow that's exactly how Jesus put it! With countless examples.

Matthew 7

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

You think there is more saved wise men who build on rocks or fools who build on sand?

God didn't decide for you to build your house on sand. You did that by yourself. Quit blaming God for your mistakes.

I am not, for I am just"blaming" Him for my salvation!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:50 AM Pacific.

 

[Particular]

"One's birth is an eminent picture of salvation. I certainly had no choice the matter. Did you? "
I didn't decide my birth, And God chose to baptize me too.


"In the case of salvation, it's because one is better and does better than the other."

Wow that's exactly how Jesus put it! With countless examples.

Matthew 7

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them,

may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them,

will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

You think there is more saved wise men who build on rocks or fools who build on sand?

God didn't decide for you to build your house on sand. You did that by yourself. Quit blaming God for your mistakes.

You miss what Jesus is saying.
The only persons who have ears to hear are those whom God chooses to open their ears.
Therefore those who are saved build on the rock.

Those who are not saved build on the sand.

God gives the unsaved over to their lists and rebellion (Romans 1).
God chooses to save whom he wills, not whoever wills themselves.

 

[utilyan]

You miss what Jesus is saying.
The only persons who have ears to hear are those whom God chooses to open their ears.
Therefore those who are saved build on the rock.

Those who are not saved build on the sand.

God gives the unsaved over to their lists and rebellion (Romans 1).
God chooses to save whom he wills, not whoever wills themselves.

He is pretty clear they heard: 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them,

He could have just said exactly what you said perfectly. -"The only persons who have ears to hear are those whom God chooses to open their ears."

Jesus could have easily said and taught this. But being God prevented him from being stupid.

 

[Particular]

He is pretty clear they heard: 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them,

He could have just said exactly what you said perfectly. -"The only persons who have ears to hear are those whom God chooses to open their ears."

Jesus could have easily said and taught this. But being God prevented him from being stupid.

God tells in many other places that only those whom God chooses to open their ears will hear.

Matthew 13:14-17 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: “‘“You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

 

[utilyan]

God tells in many other places that only those whom God chooses to open their ears will hear.

Matthew 13:14-17 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: “‘“You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

"only those whom God chooses to open their ears will hear."

He chose

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

"Let him hear" implies before not, He targeted all who has ears.

And if you read further he gets rejected.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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