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God and free will
- Thread starter Hobie
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
God knows the end from the beginning. He knew every sin that would ever be committed prior to creating anything and He knew exactly how He would react in response. Our sin didn’t influence God’s will in any way.Does God get angry at a sinner's sin?...... a will that is free from any influence.
God acts according to His own perfect will, which cannot be influenced by us. His perfect will has and will continue to unfold.
peace to you
There is no react. React means he is responding to something (the influence).
I know exactly how I will react from someone shredding my favorite shirt.
If God gets angry at YOU he's obviously attributing YOU RESPONSIBLE of his ANGER. You have Successfully influenced GOD into ANGER.
You are not wrong, but its headbutting Calvinist lack of understanding anthropomorphism, God is immutable and Impassible. But you can't square that circle of ANGRY and INFLUENCE.
So he just hates reprobates, not because of anything they did, We Christians call that EVIL.
You are reinventing the wheel. After all you admit so in "defining" your way.
See If you believed God was not evil, you wouldn't imagine God out to be so horrible,
Evil people think a nuclear bomb is powerful, A good person believes a infant's cry is stronger.
These two are going to draw different ideas of who God is.
The reason Calvinism is wrong is its the former point of view doing the speculating of God's will.
ITs the point of view of a hate filled person who is sick and tired of other people and blames others for their own bad time.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
We are talking about influencing a person’s will regarding making a decision.
God’s decisions, according to His perfect will, were made in eternity past, prior to anything being created or any sin being committed. His response to our sin is part of His perfect will.
Even though God responds with revulsion to our sin, His will is already in place and unfolding around us.
Concerning human will, all sorts of influences impact those decisions not yet made, therefore human will cannot be “free”.
peace to you
We are talking about HOW DUMB YOU THINK GOD IS. Can GOD run a system other then Calvinism if he WANTS TO?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
No, as it is the only "system" that will allow God to stay both Holy Judge and loving Savior!
OK so you think he is not Sovereign Trapped to do your Man-Centered theology.
I'm curious how you think a Loving Savior is anyway distant and different from a Holy Judge? If you can sit and actually contemplate you might realize the stupidity and insult you are making against God.
My understanding is God can easily do a boring system like Calvinism, Even I can run a Calvinist system with some puppets and robots.
I think God is beyond a megalomaniacs simpleton puppet show. Wanted to talk to someone else for a change.
My God will never take pleasure in ordaining the rape and torture of children nor does he plan any other evil your wrong view of God craves for his own vanity over others.
It depends on the understanding of what scripture actually says. Discernment of the scriptures comes with prayer. Scripture is very clear, it's the people who become confused.
There is proof being saved is by believing. Paul wrote ;
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
No one ever wrote that Gentiles must be elect to be saved. In fact there is not one elect Gentile ever mentioned in the Bible. Nor is there even the slightest mention of Gentiles ever bein elected.
MB
It's simple preaching the gospel cannot be done with out holding to the doctrines of scripture. Calvinist do not hold to the truth of scripture. They hold to there philosophical tulip. When you make it a philosophy you can add and subtract as you please which they do.
MB
atpollard
Well-Known Member
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Does God get angry at a sinner's sin?
John 8:31-47 [NKJV]
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How [can] You say, 'You will be made free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, [but] a son abides forever. 36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 "I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father." 39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 "But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 "You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father--God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources], for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 "He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How [can] You say, 'You will be made free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, [but] a son abides forever. 36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 "I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father." 39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 "But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 "You do the deeds of your father." Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father--God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources], for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 "He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
There is no will "free from any influence".
Sinners are in bondage to sin.
Jesus' sheep hear and follow the Good Shepherd.
Does God want you to sin again? .......How weak do you think God is?Can God create an object that He cannot lift?
... How weak do you think God is?
Your Church has God having millions of babies stuck eternally in a place called Limbo!
Oh really? I want to go there.....must be fun if God is in charge.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 2:11
(You have confused me with the Holy Spirit).
atpollard
Well-Known Member
How would you describe a police officer who witnesses “the rape and torture of children”, stands by watching and does nothing about it? Either way, the “buck stops with God”.
The police didn't plan to torture a child for their own glory.
There is no way Calvinism can portray a morally superior God because his motives themselves are based on evil selfish anthropomorphic view of a vindictive man, much like pagan views of God of the time.
When you have that attitude as the base rather then scripture, your not building God's character from Jesus.
Jesus would never want you to rape anyone, Jesus would never want you to sin.
If someone asked does Jesus want one to torture or rape anyone.......only a Calvinist is expected to shrug with "maybe".
Thats pathetic, snap out and repent, repent literally as in change your mind have a good look.
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
God DID NOT 'Re-Create' an environment of Free Will, in a New Garden of Eden, when The Federal Head and Representative of all Mankind Willfully sinned.
Adam was proven to be mutable, as you or I would have. He nor we are God and Jesus Has Done Nothing to 'Re-Create' a Garden of Eden.
You ARE NOT IN: The Garden of Eden.
Adam was innocent and found to be mutable, in willfully sinning, as we all would have done.
God is God to God's Glory....
Adam was Rendered "Dead in Trespasses and sins" and all of Adam's offspring were, therefore, also Rendered "Dead in Trespasses and sins".
All sound Bible Believers of The Truth, that their enemies and the enemies of The Eternal Word of God call 'Calvinist', agree with those points.
That is the Key to Salvation Understanding and Experience.
Jesus Died for Specific sins of Specific Elect people and DID NOT 'Re-Create' The Garden of Eden.
That is Heresy 101 and should be dealt with, as such.
The only "Dead in Trespasses and sins" WILL that a "Dead in Trespasses and sins" LOST SOUL HAS is a WILL TO CHOOSE, BELIEVE, PICK, what their "Dead in Trespasses and sins" SOUL is CAPABLE of CHOOSING, BELIEVING, PICKING, AND THAT IS THAT WHICH A "Dead in Trespasses and sins" SOUL THAT WILL NOT COME UNTO JESUS CHOOSES, BELIEVES, PICKS, etc. which is ?....sin.
Salvation is Being Delivered from sin, not picking a tomato, fig, or Tree of whatever.
That is not available.
Jesus is and He is Standing in Matthew 7 Ready to Say, "Depart from Me".
Repeat and Believe The Gospel is Jesus' Gospel.
Not that people are in some New Garden of Eden, like a Sunday School book. Those chapters are gone.
Jesus is on His Throne.
He Said, "You Must Be Born Again".
Repent and Believe the Gospel.
Not Pick a Tree.
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