1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured What Do Matthew 8:22 and Luke 9:60 Teach about Burial?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, May 25, 2022.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 8
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Were animal carcasses burn-up in Gehenna outside the gates of Jerusalem? Yes
    Does scripture say the king was cremated? No, but suggests the possibility.
    Did I provide proof that the Hebrew word translated "burial" is used to refer to other non-interment means of handling remains, such as cremation? Yes.

    Are there other examples? Yes, take a look at Jeremiah 7:32-33. Here bodies are buried in the Valley of Ben-Hinnom, but not interred for they become food for birds.
     
    #81 Van, May 26, 2022
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  2. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    103
    Faith:
    Baptist
    False. You do not have any Bible to support that the word is used to support or signify cremation. If you want to argue that Christians should be buried with the burial of a donkey, go right ahead and use Jer. 22:19.

    Furthermore, the word as it is used in Jer. 22:19 is used to speak of divine judgment on a very wicked king. Your claim then becomes one of "honoring" your loved one by using a form of burial that God used to judge a very wicked king.

    What's even more telling is the fallacious notion that because a word modified by a specific noun is used to signify something in one passage, that same word itself without being modified by that same noun can still mean elsewhere the same thing as it did in the passage where it was modified by that noun.

    You have to prove that it means the same thing without being modified by that noun--you do not just get to declare that it does or can do so.
     
    #82 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    87
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Greetings,

    Very well spoken of. How do they get "burial" in Hebrew to mean "cremation"?

    I only have a Strong's Concordance, it reveal's this for the word "buried" in Hebrew:

    "Jer 22:19 He shall be buriedH6912 with the burialH6900 of an ass,H2543 drawnH5498 and cast forthH7993 beyondH4480 H1973 the gatesH8179 of Jerusalem.H3389"

    Strong's meaning in Hebrew:
    H6912
    קבר
    qâbar
    kaw-bar'
    A primitive root; to inter: - X in any wise, bury (-ier).


    H6900
    קברה קבוּרה
    qebûrâh qebûrâh
    keb-oo-raw', keb-oo-raw'
    Feminine passive participle of H6912; sepulture; (concretely) a sepulchre: - burial, burying place, grave, sepulchre.


    From whence do they come up with the meaning of "cremation" within the Hebrew?????/

    It is just NOT there.......very sad to mis-handle the Word of the Lord in such a manner to "win" an argument.

    The Lord bless you....
    In His Love....
     
    #83 CalTech, May 26, 2022
  4. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    87
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Greetings,

    I know what you are up against, they tried to use the same argument with me using Lot's wife, Sodom and Gomorrah, and I informed them, that those were of "judgement's by God," but they ignored my stance.

    The Lord bless you....
    In His Love....
     
    #84 CalTech, May 26, 2022
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Absolutely disagree with you
     
    #85 Salty, May 26, 2022
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did I say I want Christians to be buried with the burial of a donkey? No. So this guy is allowed to post falsehood. Pathetic.

    Were animal carcasses burn-up in Gehenna outside the gates of Jerusalem? Yes
    Does scripture say the king was cremated? No, but suggests the possibility.
    Did I provide proof that the Hebrew word translated "burial" is used to refer to other non-interment means of handling remains, such as cremation? Yes.

    Are there other examples? Yes, take a look at Jeremiah 7:32-33. Here bodies are buried in the Valley of Ben-Hinnom, but not interred for they become food for birds.
     
    #86 Van, May 26, 2022
  7. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    103
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You did not prove that the word itself ever refers to cremation. Prove that the word itself refers to cremation.
     
    #87 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
  8. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    87
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Greetings,

    Well if you disagree, then where is the scripture's to support your stance?
    Do you have any?
    How sad........

    IN His Love....
     
    #88 CalTech, May 26, 2022
  9. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    87
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Greetings,

    He won't, that is just the way they deal with truth......then turn and attack you without any God given authority.

    It is all very sad, and give's no glory to the Name of the Lord......

    The Lord bless you.....
    In His Love...
     
    #89 CalTech, May 26, 2022
  10. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    103
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Bottom line: the Hebrew word for "burial" in Scripture never means "cremation" anywhere in Scripture, and it is not used anywhere in Scripture with any other words to speak of cremation. No lexical sources support such a faulty handling of Scripture. None.
     
    #90 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Prove it does not!!!!! You are long on false claims, and demands for others to refute your nonsense.
     
    #91 Van, May 26, 2022
  12. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,309
    Likes Received:
    103
    Faith:
    Baptist
    BDB, a standard Hebrew lexicon, treats all 14 occurrences in Scripture of the Hebrew word "burial." The word does not mean "cremation" in any of those 14 occurrences:

    Brown-Driver-Briggs
    [קְבֻרָה], and (4 t.) קְבוּרָה noun feminine grave, burial; — absolute קְבוּרָה Isaiah 14:20 2t.; construct קְבוּרֵת Jeremiah 22:19, קְבֻרַת Genesis 35:20 +; suffix קְבֻרָתוֺ Deuteronomy 34:6 +; —
    1 grave> Genesis 35:20 (twice in verse); Genesis 47:30; Deuteronomy 34:6; 1 Samuel 10:2; 2 Kings 9:28; 2 Kings 21:26; 2 Kings 23:30; Ezekiel 32:23,24; ׳שְׂדֵה הַקּ2Chronicles 26:23,

    2 burial, Isaiah 14:20; Ecclesiastes 6:3; קְבוּרַת חֲמוֺר Jeremiah 22:19.

    קֳבָתָהּ see קֵבָה.


    From biblehub.com) Strong's Hebrew: 6900. קְבוּרָה (qeburah) -- a grave, burial
     
    #92 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,450
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In the NT "bury" also refers to the burial rites (primarily the burial rites). The body was prepared and placed in a tomb. But "burial" lasted several days.

    Systematic Theology uses Biblical Theology but also incorporates extra-biblical references (in this case, what is known about first century Jewish burials).
     
    #93 JonC, May 26, 2022
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    SMA claims burial always means interment but scripture more accurately understood indicates the word can refer to other means of handling remains.

    Does anyone think they interred the carcasses of donkeys? Or those that become food for birds.
     
    #94 Van, May 26, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I see it has been claimed by SMA that the word translated burial (in the phrase donkey's burial) somehow refers to something other than the place of burial. Thus grave or tomb or other location. Where were donkeys buried outside Jerusalem? Gehenna?
    And how were those bodies disposed of? Cremation?

    Never mind the other Hebrew word translated "buried" in the verse. This word appears over 130 times in the OT.
     
    #95 Van, May 26, 2022
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What is the actual basis of the myth that burial in a coffin in the ground is the proscribed method of handling the remains of the deceased Christian?

    The spiritual Gehenna, the lake of fire, is where the lost are consigned. But this happens after the lost's bodies are resurrected by the power of God. Thus to think the status of their physical bodies before they are resurrected somehow affects the outcome as declared by God is simply to deny the power of God.

    And the same reasoning also applies to the physical remains of believers. Their spiritual entity (soul/spirit) is in heaven with Christ. No matter where or how the physical remains are distributed on earth, God will raise their "glorified bodies" when Christ returns.

    Thus, the appeal is not based on scripture but on tradition, and as good stewards another tradition is to spend God's resources wisely.
     
    #96 Van, May 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,450
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The first centuries Jews bury in a tomb and later washed and removed the bones.

    The irony is our embalming, caskets and vaults are designed to prevent as much as possible man returning to dust. Cremation, however, takes care of that issue rather quickly.
     
    #97 JonC, May 26, 2022
  18. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    87
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unbelievable............such worthless information.....
     
    #98 CalTech, May 26, 2022
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,450
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is telling that on a forum discussing burial in Scripture you consider the Hebrew method of burial (to include Christ's burial) as "worthless information".
     
    #99 JonC, May 26, 2022
  20. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    377
    Faith:
    Baptist
    While I still disagree with your conclusions, your response helps me understand where you are coming from. You already know my stance, so I am content to part as brothers in Christ who disagree on some topics. Take care.
     
    #100 Lodic, May 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
Page 5 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...