Yep they are both speaking of the rapture.
1 Cor.15 The rapture?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by UUall, Dec 31, 2005.
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In Christ,
Bob -
Bob
Just so's i understand where you are coming from a little better.
EZEKIEL 34 [9] Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord; [10] Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them. [11] For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. [12] AS A SHEPHERD SEEKETH OUT HIS FLOCK IN THE DAY THAT HE IS AMONG HIS SHEEP THAT ARE SCATTERED; SO WILL I SEEK OUT MY SHEEP, AND WILL DELIVER THEM OUT OF ALL PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN SCATTERED IN THE CLOUDY AND DARK DAY. [13] And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, AND WILL BRING THEM TO THEIR OWN LAND, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
Would you also call the above a rapture scripture? -
Just throwing in this sweet chart I posted on another thread:
I get confused with what people mean in their posts, sometimes. Graphics work well for me.
I think people get confused between Jesus and His Second Coming to Earth and Jesus in the Clouds/Snatching Away the Bride. -
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Jesus came - 2000 years ago and died for our sins.
Jesus will "come again" as He said in John 14:1-4 and speaks of that "coming of the Lord" in both 1Thess 4 and in 2 Thess 2. So also does Christ speak of His coming in Matt 24.
Hence all the texts are "About His Coming" and all of them pertain to the rapture that happens at "His coming" - "the Coming of the Lord".
The term "second coming" is not in scripture but we know it from Joh 14 "I will come again and receive you unto Myself" - we wait for the "Coming of the Lord" as Paul says in 1Thess4
That is "the focus of the church" according to Peter in 1Peter chapter 1.
In Christ,
Bob -
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Bob wrote
The term "second coming" is not in scripture but we know it from Joh 14 "I will come again and receive you unto Myself" - we wait for the "Coming of the Lord" as Paul says in 1Thess4
Ahhh.... 1Thes.4
Another scripture concerning the "dark and cloudy day"
Well... we will look into the "day of the Lord" at a later time. -
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Soooo... Bob says the DARK and CLOUDY day has already happened
EZEK. 34 [12] As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in THE CLOUDY AND DARK DAY.
ZEPH.1 [14] THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD IS NEAR, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, A DAY OF CLOUDS AND THICK DARKNESS,[16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
JOEL.2 [1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, for it is nigh at hand;[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, A DAY OF CLOUDS AND OF THICK DARKNESS, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
So Bob.. You think the "Day of the Lord" has come and gone?
YES or NO -
AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT!
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As i look back on my last few posts i see sarcasm and confrontation. I wanna say to those that these posts were directed that im sorry. I dont mean to come across that way. Sometimes i get caught up in the moment and my fingers work quicker than my brain. Again, im sorry.
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With “Force and severity” they dominate instead of ministering to the real spiritual needs of the flock. True of Israel’s leaders in Jeremiah’s day – true of the RC leaders in the blind superstitions they promoted in the dark ages.
However as with many types of the OT – there is an even bigger redemptive fulfillment in the future when Christ Himself shall come to deliver His persecuted-Church as we see in 2 Thess 1.
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In Christ,
Bob </font>[/QUOTE]I mean that Jesus came to establish His Kingdom, with himself ruling as Messiah. His efforts while here was to convince Israel who He was.
The Mystery age of grace was hidden in the Father, only revealed through the apostle Paul after Israel's rejection of Messiah.
We are addressing 2 (two) seperate events.
1) the Millinial Kingdom, where the Messiah will touch dowm on the mount of Olives, "feet on ground". HE COMES DOWN.
2) We meet Him in the air in the rapture. WE ARE CAUGHT UP. -
He stated, 'My kingdom is not of this world', or this present age. -
He came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
Matt.10
Salvation is of the Jews. woman at the well. John 4
His ministry was to Isreal, who's mission was then to then complete the "great commission" Mark 16
His Kingdom is to start on planet earth, but we know He came to die on the cross, Is that what you mean, SFIC?
He came first to die on the Cross.
Secondly He will call away the saints to meet Him in teh air. (rapture)
Third he will set foot on Mount of Olives, and establish His millenial Kingdom. -
In Christ,
Bob -
Isaiah 53 tells of the first coming of Messiah (His suffering, death, burial & resurrection). The Jews did not recognize Him as the Suffering Servant (the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world [John 1:29] ). They truly believed that Jesus was going to set up His earthly kingdom at that time. They were looking for a King who would save them from the Romans. But when He was crucified, they rejected Him as their Messiah (it was a National rejection).
There are many Jews today (mainly the Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox) who are still looking for Messiah, and I believe they will accept Anti-Christ as the true Messiah because he will bring "peace" (which will, of course, be a false peace). I truly believe that right before this happens, the Church will be raptured. Christ will come 'in the air' 'in the twinkling of an eye' and the rapture will more than likely be the catylist for the "man of peace" (the Anti-Christ) to be revealed. We are very close to the rapture--it is imminent.
1 Cor. 15:51-58; 1 Thess.4:13-18; John 14:1-3--the Rapture (for the Church)
Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21--Tribulation (time of Jacob's Trouble) & Second Coming of Christ; the Church is not mentioned. -
The term "church" is not used in 1Thess 4 or in Matt 24 when it speaks of those who will be alive at the "coming of the Lord".
In 1Thess 4 the time is "the coming of the Lord".
In 2 Thess 2 the time is "the Coming of the Lord AND our Gathering together to HIM".
Paul points out that this does NOT happen unil those great events listed in Matt 24 come to pass.
Christ tells His followers in Matt 24 what the sequence will be - it is right on the money - so to speak.
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