This, my friend, is double-talk! So, according to you, One Person of the Godhead, the Son, dies for the sins of the entire world; while the Other Person of the Godhead, the Father, "intended" for only a part of those to be actually saved? Here we are conflict in the Godhead! This is against what the Bible teaches
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2 Peter 2:1 shows Jesus died for the non-elect
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This, my friend, is double-talk! So, according to you, One Person of the Godhead, the Son, dies for the sins of the entire world; while the Other Person of the Godhead, the Father, "intended" for only a part of those to be actually saved? Here we are conflict in the Godhead! This is against what the Bible teaches
Funny how the Arminians have suffered such quick destruction over the years. God gets rid of heretics in his body and there are many heretics in the Arminian camp. Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, multiple cults throughout the US, Joel Osteen and the prosperity gospel, etc. You can thank the heretic, Charles Finney for such horrible teachings being brought into the church.
Thanks for bringing up 2 Peter 2:1. It fits perfectly with Arminian/Pelagian heresy.
God desires that all sinners would come to Jesus, but he knows that only those whom he intended to benefit from the Cross will come to Christ! God is under NO obligation to saved any sinner, correct?
Sad to see that things such charasmatic chaos are spreding into even some Baptist/reformed circles!
As seen by Dr Grudem/Carson see prophecy for today, and there are charasmatic Baptists!
I don't have an issue with Reformed Charismatics. I don't throw any gift of God off the table. My issue is with those who wish to make God secondary to themselves by insisting that they control their own destiny.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord (δεσπότης) that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. -2 Peter 2:1
It is noteworthy that δεσπότης is never used in reference to Jesus Christ.
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord (δεσπότης) God, and our Lord (κύριος) Jesus Christ. -Jude 1:4
Jude uses δεσπότης to refer to God and κύριος to refer to Jesus Christ. This does not settle the debate, but it may help us in determining what the verse may or may not mean.
It is noteworthy that δεσπότης is never used in reference to Jesus Christ.
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord (δεσπότης) God, and our Lord (κύριος) Jesus Christ. -Jude 1:4
Jude uses δεσπότης to refer to God and κύριος to refer to Jesus Christ. This does not settle the debate, but it may help us in determining what the verse may or may not mean.
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So you would agree with sign gifts still to be in full operation today then?
I believe God may use all the gifts according to His Sovereign will. I thing Jonathan Edwards is correct in regard to the manifestation of the Spirit in his book " Religious Affections."
Jonathan Edwards says what? can you quote?
Another lame excuse to try to undermine what the Bible actually says. There is NO doubt to the honest mind, that it is Jesus Christ Who is called "Master" in both 2 Peter 2:1, and Jude 4. I have seen Calvinists try their best to rid this verse from 2 Peter, by arguments like this one, and even by saying that "bought" does not mean "redeemed" here, but in the sense that God "blesses" the non-elect. WHY the need to distort what the Bible very PLAINLY Teaches?
I honestly don't know how the Jehovan's Witnesses or Joel Osteen, etc, feels about this issue. As far as I know they think God is a just God, like I do. But I don't go along with their other doctrines. Don't quite understand how they made it into this conversation.
If you know his position on whether the gifts are still in the Church today, then please share this. thanks
The sign gifts were given to just the Apostles of Christ though, and not for today!
Those really saved would not return back to the vomit!
he seemed to be arguing for the emotional aspect of experiencing God still being for today, but don;t think he would agree with modern day Apostles/prophets/revelations etc!
Nowhere do you find that in the Bible. People attempt to extrapolate it from 1 Corinthians 13, but the cessationist argument is not contextual.
Let me add that it would not bother me if God chose to not give gifts. God is Sovereign and He does what He wills.
I agree, there is NOT ONE passage in the New Testament that says gifts were only for the Apostles. The fact that they are listed in 1 Corinthians 12-14, shows beyond any doubt that it IS for the whole Church age, till Jesus Returns. Another "Reformed" red-herring!
There are gifts still in use, but NOT those such as healing/miracles and extra revelations for today!
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