3 days and 3 nights

[rstrats]

Bible Believing Bill,

re: “The IMPORTANT point is that JESUS DIED WAS BURIED AND ROSE AGAIN!. The timing doesn't really matter.”

Are you really saying that it wouldn’t matter if the Messiah was in the tomb for only 1 dark period after he had said to the scribes and Pharisees that he would be in it for “3 days and 3 nights”?

 

[wopik]

Knowing the origins of the Roman Christian holidays, isn't it possible that Attis/cybele, Isis/Osiris had a Friday "crucifixion" and a Sunday morning "resurrection" --- and that this ALSO was imported into the Roman church like the winter solstice festival ????

 

[Charles Meadows]

Is it possible that the Friday date came from Isis/Osiris? In a word....

No!

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

Originally posted by rstrats:
Bible Believing Bill,

re: “The IMPORTANT point is that JESUS DIED WAS BURIED AND ROSE AGAIN!. The timing doesn't really matter.”

Are you really saying that it wouldn’t matter if the Messiah was in the tomb for only 1 dark period after he had said to the scribes and Pharisees that he would be in it for “3 days and 3 nights”?

No what I am saying is that it dosn't matter how you count to three the important thing is that you get to three. 1+1+1=3 and 2+1=3 and 5-2=3, but they all equal 3. The Bible says it was three days and three nights, so it was 3 days and 3 nights. It dosn't matter if you start counting on Wednesday or on Friday. Jesus is my Lord and Savior, and that is what is important.

Bill

 

[wopik]

Come on Charles, cut me a break.

 

[wopik]

Charles --

Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis ([the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name).

He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection."

link ---
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm

 

[Charles Meadows]

Wopik,

OK!

The arguments that you and rstrats made are really pretty good! I can't refute them.

But I just think we cannot say for CERTAIN. AS I said I think the 3 days AND 3 nights was used by Jesus to parallel to Jonah prophecy - not to stipulate exactly 72 hours - since in other verses he said 3 days (and no mention of nights).

Thus I go with the traditional stance here. But then again I could be wrong!

 

[wopik]

Charles -- you probably know the story of Jesus walking with the two men who were going to Emmaus, on Sunday.

What do you think of this scenario:

"...and besides all this, today is the third day since these things were done" (Lk. 24:21). "These things were done" included the sealing of the sepulchre and setting a watch at the tomb -- ordered by Pilate, a day after the crucifixion (Matt. 27: 62-66).

Sunday was the third day from Thursday, making a late Wednesday crucifixion possible.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Wopik,

That's certainly possible. Still Sunday could be the third day if you think of Friday as the first day.

 

[rstrats]

Charles Meadows,

When was the last time that you said that Friday was the first day SINCE Friday?

 

[Charles Meadows]

When Friday moves very slowly!

I think we've beat this one enough! You're points are well taken but I still think there are reasons to go either way - especially given the mention of the Sabbath. This could have been the special Sabbath but still seems most likely to have been the "Sabbath".

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Originally posted by bryan1276:
3 days and 3 nights is specific time, not an idiom. if God wanted to be nonspecific, he couldve been, but he was precise and gave a number. the crucifixion took place on wednesday

wednsday night =1 night
thrusday day= 1 night, 1 day
thursday night= 1 day 2 nights
friday day= 2 days, 2 nights
friday night=2 days, 3 nights
saturday day= 3 days, 3 nights

he rose saturday @ 6pm, which is when the jews days started--evening and morning is day according to Genesis 1. so the evening starts the new day. their sunday wouldve started @ 6pm on our saturday and thats when Christ arose, the beginning of the first day of the week. no idioms involved, no gimmicks. plain and simple.

But you forget that this was before Jesus began to teach that He would suffer and die. He didn't say He'd spend three days and three nights in the grave, but in the heart of the earth (the common Jewish expression for Jerusalem), which, by comparison to Jonah, indicates His period of tribulation there.

 

[wopik]

Charles ---

This could have been the special Sabbath but still seems most likely to have been the "Sabbath".

The women, Mary Magdalene,et.al., who bought and prepared the spices, bought the spices after the Sabbath (Mk.16:1), yet had them prepared before the Sabbath (Lk.23:56). This was impossible, unless there were two Sabbaths that week, with a day in between to buy and prepare the necessary spices for burial.

The first Sabbath (Mk.16:1) is the annual Pesach "high day" John refers to (Jn.19:31); the second Sabbath (Lk.23:56) is the weekly Sat. Sabbath the women rested on "according to the commandment".

Nisan 14-Jesus died (late Wed. afternoon)
Nisan 15-Pesach "high day" Sabbath
Nisan 16-Women buy and prepare burial spices
Nisan 17-Women rest on weekly Sat. Sabbath (resurrection late afternoon - 3days & 3nights later)
Nisan 18-Women go to the tomb Sunday (while it was yet dark / at sunrise) and find it empty.


"so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matt. 12:40).

 

[rstrats]

Taufgesinnter,

re: “He didn't say He'd spend three days and three nights in the grave, but in the heart of the earth (the common Jewish expression for Jerusalem)...”

What is your reference that states that the “heart of the earth” was a first century expression for Jerusalem?

 

[rstrats]

Dr Bob Griffin,

re: “If you read Edersheim's account on proving the death of Lazarus (4 days) you will see mention of the 3-days and 3-nights as idiomatic.”


I looked at the “Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Alfred Edersheim, Vol 2 ... Descent 21. THE DEATH AND THE RAISING OF LAZARUS” and didn’t see any mention of the phrase “3 days and 3 nights”. Could you please identify where the phrase appears?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Will check for it. It's been 20+ years since I did the study on it. Hope I did not give a wrong reference to support it. (I've been known to do that).

I grew up Jewish and learned a lot of this stuff from my elders (traditions like the 3 day-3 night was discussed in 3rd grade Talmud-Torah school!) probably because of the ties of Jonah to the NT.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Dr Bob,

You grew up Jewish? Very interesting. Did your years of Torah school help with Hebrew grammar?

 

[wopik]

Charles Meadows --

This could have been the special Sabbath but still seems most likely to have been the "Sabbath".

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Bible commentary says the "Sabbath" in John 19:31 was the "high sabbath" - the first day of unleavened bread. They go on to say that the "high Sabbath" occurred on the same day as the weekly Sabbath.

------------

Mark 16:1 says when the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices that they might come and anoint Him.

However, in Luke 23:56, the women returned and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day, according to the commandment.

How could these women buy the spices and ointments after the Sabbath, and yet have them prepared before the Sabbath? That 's impossible, unless there were two Sabbaths that week.

 

[wopik]

Charles Meadows --

This could have been the special Sabbath but still seems most likely to have been the "Sabbath".

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Bible commentary says the "Sabbath" in John 19:31 was the "high sabbath" - the first day of unleavened bread. They go on to say that the "high Sabbath" occurred on the same day as the weekly Sabbath.

------------

Mark 16:1 says when the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices that they might come and anoint Him.

However, in Luke 23:56, the women returned and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day, according to the commandment.

How could these women buy the spices and ointments after the Sabbath, and yet have them prepared before the Sabbath? That 's impossible, unless there were two Sabbaths that week.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Hmm,

That's an interesting point Wopik! Hadn't thtought of that one. The Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion could be true! Really my objection is not to having a non Friday crucifixion - but rather it is an objection to insisting on a literal interpretation of Mt 12:40!

CM