Featured 3 Differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ

The Church is promised Relief, but NOT UNTIL the Revelation (Second Advent). So the church is not raptured until the Second Advent. Do you deny that the passage is a Second Advent passage?

 

I see you missed the part where Henry said satan would be bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years. We have here,

I. "A prophecy of the binding of Satan for a certain term of time," Notice Henry says we have here a prophecy, which means it was yet to be fulfilled at the time of Henry's writing. Great support for the fact that it hasn't occurred yet.

"in which he should have much less power and the church much more peace than before. The power of Satan was broken in part by the setting up of the gospel kingdom in the world; it was further reduced by the empire's becoming Christian; it was yet further broken by the downfall of the mystical Babylon; but still this serpent had many heads, and, when one is wounded, another has life remaining in it. Here we have a further limitation and diminution of his power."


"1. To whom this work of binding Satan is committed--to an angel from heaven. It is very probable that this angel is no other than the Lord Jesus Christ; the description of him will hardly agree with any other. He is one who has power to bind the strong man armed, to cast him out, and to spoil his goods; and therefore must be stronger than he.

2. The means he makes use of in this work: he has a chain and a key, a great chain to bind Satan, and the key of the prison in which he was to be confined. Christ never wants proper powers and instruments to break the power of Satan, for he has the powers of heaven and the keys of hell.

3. The execution of this work, Re 20:2,3.

(1.) He laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the devil, and Satan. Neither the strength of the dragon, nor the subtlety of the serpent, was sufficient to rescue him out of the hands of Christ; he caught hold, and kept his hold. And,

(2.) He cast him into the bottomless pit, cast him down with force, and with a just vengeance, to his own place and prison, from which he had been permitted to break out, and disturb the churches, and deceive the nations; now he is brought back to that prison, and there laid in chains.

(3.) He is shut up, and a seal set upon him. Christ shuts, and none can open; he shuts by his power, seals by his authority; and his lock and seal even the devils themselves cannot break open.

(4.) We have the term of this confinement of Satan--a thousand years, after which he was to be loosed again for a little season. The church should have a considerable time of peace and prosperity, but all her trials were not yet over.


Now let's look at the next section:

"II. An account of the reign of the saints for the same space of time in which Satan continued bound here we see Saints reigning with Christ during the 1000 years according to Henry, so yet more unfulfilled prophecy.

Re 20:4-6, and here observe,

1. "Who those were that received such honour--those who had suffered for Christ, and all who had faithfully adhered to him, not receiving the mark of the beast, nor worshipping his image; all who had kept themselves clear of pagan and papal idolatry."

It appears there is still a time coming prior to the reign of Christ upon the earth who will refuse to take the mark of the beast, that again supports the Tribulation period of 7 years, seems Henry taught what those who oppose dispensational teaching say Darby founded the teaching, yet here we see Henry teaching a Tribulation period and people refusing the mark of the beast years before Darby.

2. The honour bestowed upon them.

(1.) They were raised from the dead, and restored to life. This may be taken either literally or figuratively; they were in a civil and political sense dead, and had a political resurrection; their liberties and privileges were revived and restored.

Henry says they will sit upon thrones they hadn't yet. He also attributes the Beast to be the Pope, the Papel leader, therefore He saw it as a future event, not one that was already in progress.

(2.) Thrones, and power of judgment, were given to them; they were possessed of great honour, and interest, and authority, I suppose rather of a spiritual than of a secular nature.

(3.) They reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Again we see the millennial reign of Christ, the 1000 year reign as yet future from Henry's time. "Those who suffer with Christ shall reign with Christ; they shall reign with him in his spiritual and heavenly kingdom, in a glorious conformity to him in wisdom, righteousness, and holiness, beyond what had been known before in the world. This is called the first resurrection, which none but those who have served Christ and suffered for him shall be favoured with. As for the wicked, they shall not be raised up and restored to their power again, till Satan be let loose; this may be called a resurrection, as the conversion of the Jews is said to be life from the dead.

3. The happiness of these servants of God is declared.

(1.) They are blessed and holy, Re 20:6. None can be blessed but those that are holy; and all that are holy shall be blessed. These were holy as a sort of first-fruits to God in this spiritual resurrection, and as such blessed by him.

(2.) They are secured from the power of the second death. We know something of what the first death is, and it is awful; but we know not what this second death is. It must be much more dreadful; it is the death of the soul, eternal separation from God. The Lord grant we may never know what it is by experience. Those who have had experience of a spiritual resurrection are saved from the power of the second death.

III. An account of the return of the church's troubles, and another mighty conflict, very sharp, but short and decisive. Observe,

1. The restraints laid for a long time on Satan are at length taken off. While this world lasts, Satan's power in it will not be wholly destroyed; it may be limited and lessened, but he will have something still to do for the disturbance of the people of God.

2. No sooner is Satan let loose than he falls to his old work, deceiving the nations, and so stirring them up to make a war with the saints and servants of God, which they would never do if he had not first deceived them. They are deceived both as to the cause they engage in (they believe it to be a good cause when it is indeed a very bad one), and as to the issue: they expect to be successful, but are sure to lose the day.

3. His last efforts seem to be the greatest. The power now permitted to him seems to be more unlimited than before. He had now liberty to beat up for his volunteers in all the four quarters of the earth, and he raised a mighty army, the number of which was as the sand of the sea, Re 20:8.

4. We have the names of the principal commanders in this army under the dragon--Gog and Magog. We need not be too inquisitive as to what particular powers are meant by these names, since the army was gathered from all parts of the world. These names are found in other parts of scripture. Magog we read of in Ge 10:2. He was one of the sons of Japheth, and peopled the country called Syria, from which his descendants spread into many other parts. Of Gog and Magog together we only read in Eze 38:2, a prophecy whence this in Revelation borrows many of its images.

5. We have the march and military disposition of this formidable army (Re 20:9): They went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city, that is, the spiritual Jerusalem, in which the most precious interests of the people of God are lodged, and therefore to them a beloved city. The army of the saints is described as drawn forth out of the city, and lying under the walls of it, to defend it; they were encamped about Jerusalem: but the army of the enemy was so much superior to that of the church that they compassed them and their city about.

6. You have an account of the battle, and the issue of this war: Fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured the enemy. Thus the ruin of Gog and Magog is foretold (Eze 38:22), I will rain upon him and upon his bands an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, and fire and brimstone. God would, in an extraordinary and more immediate manner, fight this last and decisive battle for his people, that the victory might be complete and the glory redound to himself.

7. The doom and punishment of the grand enemy, the devil: he is now cast into hell, with his two great officers, the beast and the false prophet, tyranny and idolatry, and that not for any term of time, but to be there tormented night and day, for ever and ever.

So we can see Henry saw a Prophetic time yet to come, while he didn't fully teach the systematic dispensations just at the beginning of the reformation and the ending ofthe dark ages where the church was catholic and any other teaching was underground. Here is a form of seeing a yet future prophetic time which Henry taught.

 

No I didn't miss that part! The point is that the Church is on earth during this 1000 year period. It has not been "raptured", "snatched" out as you claim and insist Henry teaches! Henry was not a Darby-pre-trib-dispensationalist and that is a fact so don't waste time trying to prove he was!

 

Christ promised the church Relief, Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Believers keep Christ word of patience in this age as they are saved. Because they do they are kept from the "hora" A certain definite time or season, KJV says hour, the certain definite time of the peirasmos, an experiment, attempt, trial, proving. What do we see in Verse 1 of chapter 4? Chriost was going to reveal to John the things which would occur after the churches went through their period. The church in heaven and the Tribulation, the set time of 7 years which the church was told they would be kept from.

 

That is false. There is no Scripture that teaches a pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church. In fact Scripture teaches that the "true believer" will undergo tribulation and that has been the history of the Church for 2000 years. First the persecution was by the Jews, then by the Roman Empire, then by the Roman Catholics, Islam, Communism and every other organization of the world.

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

As Matthew Henry teaches in his exposition of Revelation 20 {post #58} the Church will be here until the Day of Judgment!

 

So what is the hour in view here...


Revelation 3:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


...?

This hour of testing is said to be coming upon the whole world.

God bless.

 

There are no scriptures you want to believe that speak of a rapture, but they are there.

For instance let's take Matthew 24 verse 4-8, 4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows."

This is the point where the snatching away occurs.

Then what do we see in verses 9-30, 9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

This is the Tribulation period. Those who believe during that period will be under the greatest persecution any believers have ever known, except those days be shortened, (7 years), all of mankind would be destroyed. Why because we are told in Revelation God removes the 4 angels from the four corners of the earth and satan is cast to the earth and the unholy trinity is ruling and if God doesn't limit their evil to 7 years all of mankind would perish. The portion in Red is exactly what we see in Revelation 18-19, just as Jesus said it would occur.

then we see verse 31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Here Christ sets up the 1000 year Kingdom that is seen in Chapter 20. Guess what in that Kingdom will be Old and New Testament Saints, for He brings the Bride with Him and she will rule and reign with Him.

It is all there and very Clear.

We see the book of Revelation the word Revelation meaning several things in the Greek, but one in particular, A disclosure of truth concerning things before unknown. In other words there is a prophetic message in every part of Revelation, the Prophet is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. The message to the churches are prophetic in nature and show in each church the phases of the church as it exist. From the persecution of the early church to the time of great apostasy we now live in the Lukewarm church of Laodecia, and boy are we in that time of great apostasy. The church of Philadelphia was the church from the late 1800 to the beginning of the 21st century. There is still a remnant of that church today. But many are turning from the truth which is a sign of the end, 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-4, 2"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The son of Perdition is the Beast out of the sea, and he has yet to be revealed, but Christ will come with the falling away. The son of perdition will set himself in the temple of God, where is that Temple in Jerusalem, and set up the abomination which maketh desolate.

Very clear prophecy from Christ, prophecy from Paul and then Prophetic Revelation from Christ again in Revelation 3:10, the church will be removed before the Tribulation and there will be a Tribulation according to Jesus Himself, the church would not go through it she is preparing herself for marriage during the 7 years of Tribulation. Then comes the 2nd coming of Christ followed by His 1000 year reign, then the New Jerusalem will come to rest on a newly renovated earth just as The Revelation of Jesus Christ shows us.

 

Do you hold that satan has been bound right now?

So that we have been in the millinium since jesus ascended back to heaven then?

 

You are into mythology not Scripture!

 

I have presented Scripture on numerous occasions demonstrating this!

Right! You finally got it right!

 

All those in that Church have long since died and their should are now in heaven reigning with Jesus Christ!

 

I believed stuff like this when I was a Catholic. Except it was Mary the Queen of heaven, and then the apostles reigning as well, etc.
But after I got saved I realized that they are dead. Their bodies are still in the grave. It is just their spirits that are in heaven. When the Bible speaks of reigning it is with resurrected bodies, not simply as "spirits." The resurrection hasn't happened yet. The cemeteries are running out of room for space to put deceased loved ones. But we look for the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ at which time the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then we which are alive shall be caught up in the air to meet him.

 

Not sure that answers the question. There is an hour of testing coming said to try the whole earth. First century events don't quite fulfill that, nor do they fulfill that prophesied concerning the Second Coming.

God bless.

 

No I don't teach mythology because it teaches a mystical or spiritual realm and kingdom! Jesus taught of a literal Kingdom and a literal Tribulation and a literal Judgment. He also taught that His literal earthly Kingdom would last for 1000 years. That hasn't happened yet!

 

Even so...come Lord Jesus!

God bless.

 

In 2 Thess. 1:5-11, Paul is:

1. Addressing a church experencing persecution

2. Comforting them that they (the church) will, in the future, have rest from the persecution

3. That cessation of persecution will not come until the Second Coming of Christ (not some secret rapture 7 years ealier)


The passage refutes explicitly any pretrib rapture. The churches future deliverance from persecution and the retribution that will come on her persecutors will be at the Second Coming, after the Tribulation.



Do you deny Paul is writing to a church?

Do you deny that the Coming of Christ referenced in the passage is His Second Advent?

The simple teaching of the passage is that the church can expect persecution, but has the future hope of relief for the church at the Second Coming. This destroys the pretrib rapture theory, which would place that relief 7 years earlier, and in no way connected with the Second Coming.

 

Answered this passage earlier:

Originally Posted by revmwc View Post
Let's see verse 3 Paul is talking to the Thessalonican believers who were suffering for their faith in the early church period. They were enduring trials and being persecuted that lasted until Constantine married the Roman government and the church. The early church suffered for the sake of Christ.

Verse 6 God will bring tribulation upon those who trouble the believer.

Notice verse 7 those in the Tribulation are told to rest as we are at rest, that would tend to support the Church in heaven having been caught away, now wouldn't it! The Tribulation period of Revelation 6-19 deals with those who have rebelled against God, those who rejected Christ and there will during that time be a multitude saved who are being persecuted while the church is at rest.

At the end of the Kingdom we see what will happen to all who don't believe in Christ, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, verse 8 in flaming fire God takes vengeance upon those who persecuted believers of every age.
When does that happen after the Kingdom and at the Great White throne judgment in other words after He has returned glorified and reigning with all the Saints.

A very beautiful passage to support the Pre-Trib view of things to come.

 

You have typed stuff, but you have not answered anything.

So you deny that Paul is referring to the Second Advent. Curious and clever twist. Please reference scholars/commentators who agree with your very unique interpretation.

So it is a postmillennial passage, according to you.

So the church is promised relief from their persecution , only after the millennial kingdom??

 

Perhaps, Old Sport, you should go to a Bible bookstore, and purchase some commentaries written by Bible Believers, and read them. Perhaps you believe yourself to be an Apostlic Authority Unto Yourself......and have no need to consider whether Your Very Curious "interpretation" should be Questioned. If so, then please leave the discussion of the Bible to humble folks who do not speak so ignorantly.