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A challenge for those who disagree with . . .

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 37818, Jul 17, 2019.

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  1. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Proverbs 30:4-6
    The Words of Agur
    …4Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His hands? Who has bound up the waters in His cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is the name of His Son—surely you know! 5Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. 6Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.…

    The scriptures are for those who love TRUTH and seek refuge in His every word. You certainly can go find some other Law to live by, but that would be to live by the carnal flesh, and that will profit nothing. Free will seems to be at play, you with your free will, deny that God's word is all one needs to live a righteous life. If every word of God is PURE , then it is perfect, and is always needed. Since He established everything, it would only be elementary to follow His word. Surely, you must see how stupid it would be to follow a different set of rules for conduct?
     
    #21 OfLivingWaters, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Forget it.
     
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Yeah like the word that says what are the proper books.
     
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  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The word of God is perfect and its not lesser or greater based on being WRITTEN. Indeed lets not add to his words.

    Indeed Those who love TRUTH got no problem expressing it.

    Show where it says SCRIPTURE is the RULE BOOK. Or is this an added FALSE TEACHING?

    I believe scripture absolutely without adding fake man made claims.
     
  5. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    utilyan said: "I believe scripture absolutely without adding fake man made claims".[/QUOTE]
    You then should take that statement and run with it. Everything prior to that one put you in the red. Since you "absolutely" believe in scripture, then you know, everything in scripture teaches the lessons for life and God's ways revealed . It His Laws made known that the prophets revealed . This discussion should then - be over for you . Unless, you suffer from some kind of brain injury or something and are in the habit of arguing with yourself?
     
  6. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    You only quoted part of the verse and second part only mentions belief. Furthermore, baptism isn't part of the Gospel. Paul, in the NT separates baptism from the Gospel.
     
  7. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember you asking this question not all that long ago.
    But rather than accept the fact that the only thing the believer can genuinely trust, is God ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ) and His perfect words ( Proverbs 30:5, 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:15 ), you seemed to take exception to this and argued against it as "not being enough", at least from my perspective.

    However, I could be wrong about my suspicions, and am reading something into this that simply is not there;
    With this said, I'd like to address the question again based on what I've gathered from what I can trust...His words.

    Essentially I am seeing you ask these questions all rolled up into the question above...because I also see that no one "verse" of Scripture actually states what you are looking for:

    1) " Is God, who cannot lie ( Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:2, Hebrews 6:18 ), able to be trusted?" Yes, or No?
    2)
    " If so, what can I point to that He said, and trust it?" Are you aware of anything other than the "Holy Bible" that is called, "God's word"?
    3)
    " In this written record, does it say I can trust Him, and Him alone?" Yes. In fact, it commands it ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ).

    So, to answer the quote:
    Yes.


    But it takes careful study to find the answer.
     
  8. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    For example:

    " For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." ( 1 Thessalonians 2:13 ).

    The believers at Thessalonica received the word which Paul preached.
    Since they knew it was the word of God, they not only received it as such ( not as the word of men ), but it is said to have effectually worked in them.

    Therefore,
    God's children "receive" ( welcome ) the word of God, because they inherently know it is His word.
    Christ's sheep "hear" His "voice" ( John 10:27 ), and they will not follow another ( John 10:5 ).
    That "voice" is written, as well as spoken...provided Scripture is being read and preached.

    But if that doesn't seem like it's enough...I'll break it down, step by step:

    A) God's word is pure ( Psalms 12:6 ). <----- That means, "inerrant".
    B) God's word is "God-breathed" ( 2 Timothy 3:16-17 )...it is profitable ( as apposed to unprofitable, like man's words ) for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
    Why?
    So that the man of God may be perfect, throughly ( thoroughly ) furnished unto all good works.
    C) Jesus Christ is the word made flesh ( John 1:1-14 ). As God, He is the representative of the Father, and speaks His words. That is why He is called, the "Word".
    D) Any word coming from Christ is perfect, because they come from His Father in Heaven ( John 12:49 ).
    E) Any word given to be spoken by His prophets and disciples, in His behalf, is perfect ( Luke 12:12, Matthew 10:20 ). To state it another way, any man speaking by the Spirit of God, is speaking perfect words, and those words will always agree with the written word.
    F) Trusting the written word is trusting God Himself.
    G) Trusting the spoken word is trusting God Himself.
    H) Therefore, trusting Him ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ) is trusting His words and trusting them alone to be profitable for doctrine...instead of unprofitable, like man's words.


    Since God commands the believer to trust Him and not their own understanding, then in so doing, they are trusting His very words... and His every word ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ).
    I just did...if you're willing to accept the answer.

    It is not a false teaching to tell someone to trust God alone.
    It is not a false teaching to tell someone not to trust men ( Psalms 118:8 ).
    It is not a false teaching to tell someone to trust His words alone, because the words are His infallible words....not man's fallible words.

    It is true doctrine to teach that Scripture alone is enough.
    Why?
    Because anything outside of God's word can be a lie.


    May God bless you.:)
     
    #28 Dave Gilbert, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    ...He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
     
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  10. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    1 Corinthians 1:10-17
    Unity in the Church
    10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction. 11My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: Individuals among you are saying, “I follow Paul,” “I follow Apollos,” “I follow Cephas,”a or “I follow Christ.”

    13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that I do not remember baptizing anyone else. 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

    Paul said what he said , not to separate the gospel from baptism, but to separate himself from the feud. Men were not associating their baptism with Christ but rather with the one who baptized them. Obviously they did not hear the gospel of Christ , if they had, they would know in whose name they are baptized . So he focused on the gospel that their understanding of baptism be real and true, that they understand the importance of the name they are baptized in. The point is, all are to know- they are to say, it is Christ they follow. He can not separate baptism from the gospel it is part of the gospel. That gospel is Jesus Christ. :12What I mean is this: Individuals among you are saying, “I follow Paul,” “I follow Apollos,” “I follow Cephas,”or “I follow Christ.”

    Those saying I follow Christ are correct, and all must be on the same page concerning that. So Paul came back to them in Corinth to preach ONLY the gospel because they were all already baptized. Hence :10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction.

    13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that I do not remember baptizing anyone else. 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

    FIRST, one must hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, we are not commissioned to go and baptize people without them knowing the message of Christ. Obviously they did not hear that, they were simply baptized and that is not what he or any of the apostles were commissioned to do. So Paul had to go back and preach only the gospel .
    This audience already were of the church, just not in agreement . Christ had to come back to them and set them all straight that they be of ONE MIND.
    It is in Christ that we are baptized and that is who all follow in that baptism. Their baptism is in, no other Authority.
     
  11. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Who do you think decided the "canon" of Scripture?

    Fallible men?
    Infallible men ( no such thing )?
    Fallible men indwelt with the infallible Spirit? ( John 8:47, John 10:27 )

    I'll take # 3.:)
     
  12. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Well I guess that would depend upon what you consider to be Canon.
     
  13. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Not the "Apocrypha".
     
  14. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    What Apocrypha? And what do you consider to be Canon?
     
  15. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    The 66 books contained in the English Authorized Version after 1885.

    Prior to that, there were 7 books labeled as "Apocrypha" and placed between the Old and New Testaments.
    In addition, they were labeled as non-canon by Jerome, when he made the original Latin "Old Vulgate" translation in the 300's.


    To me, the "Apocrypha" is not Scripture.
     
    #35 Dave Gilbert, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  16. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Well good thing the RCC acquired the scriptures from the assemblies which predate them or you would have never had anything to remove. Better than that , thank you God for preserving those true books( placed among the others that are false), among certain others of your choosing. If you hadn't those approved prophets in the 66 Book Canon, 73 book Canon, their writings would be lost. It is as Christ said: "Not one jot, not one stroke of the pen will be lost". Those prophet's works will stand until the end of time.

    Putting so much faith in fallible men is like putting faith in fallible apocrypha. Good thing the little ones of God's choosing have been commissioned to preserve all TRUTH. Casting the good among that which is truly apocrypha, is truly the work of FALLIBLE men.

    Well at least you have a 66 Book Canon.
     
  17. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I would have had my Saviour's words regardless of what the RCC did.
    Then it's a good thing that I don't trust in men.:)
    I agree.
    I do, and I thank God for giving me His precious words in my own language.
     
  18. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Well looks like you can break down a conversation, LOL.:Smile.
     
  19. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Thank you kindly for the compliment. :)
     
  20. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Take it however you want.
    No really, breaking down things is really the talent of most in here not just you. I am waiting to see the Building up of the Body of Christ though. I would like to know what that means according to you? Does that mean tearing down the first, and only giving honor and esteem to yourselves? Lastly ,just curious are the saints dead or alive and are they above you and over you, or underneath you?
     
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